Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Bigfootology's "known hybrid-offspring of human and Bigfoot" [Bigfoot DNA]


Okay, folks (Why did I just say "folks" when I'm not even from the south? Oh, well). Since the president of Bigfootology, Rhettman Mullis Jr., let out the bombshell on Steven Streufert's Facebook group page (The Coalition for Reason, Science, Satire and Sanity in Bigfoot Research) about a "parallel Sasquatch DNA research" being worked on in conjunction with other prominent researchers like Dr. Meldrum of Idaho State, and Dr. Sykes of Oxford University, many of you were wondering what Rhettman was talking about when he mentioned "some known hybrid-offspring of human and Bigfoot".

"Soon we will be asking for DNA samples from all over the world and Bigfootology will assist in the accumulation of those samples. We are also in the process of reaching out to some known hybrid-offspring of human and Bigfoot joining." - Rhettman Mullis Jr.

Bigfootology has been documenting several cases of where this Human-Bigfoot hybridization may have taken place. A few years ago, Bigfootology posted an article about a Colville Indian bride who was purportedly kidnapped by Bigfoot in the late 1800s. The article summarized a Ray Crowe article titled "Monster DNA and Ancestry":

Perhaps the most famous is the one in a rare book of Dr. Ed Fusch, “Seweneytl And The Stick Indians Of The Colville.” He tells of the Lake Band of the Colville Indians. They had a fishing camp in the late 1890’s near Keller, Washington, on the San Poil River.

The recent pretty bride had gone for water when the camp heard the Indian maiden scream. The men thought a bear might be threatening or attacking the bride and rushed to her aid and they could only stand and watch in awe as the bride disappeared in the distance in the arms of a Skanicum (local Bigfoot name).

The remainder of the summer the men hunted for the lost bride searching every nook and cranny, but without luck. Finally at the end of summer they found her while she was gathering roots as the Skanicum slept. She was pregnant from the seed of the monster that had forced her to satisfy his desires. Months later she bore a half-monster child – a son. She named him Patrick. And Patrick survived and grew up to become a member of the tribe.

Patrick was ugly. A tiny troll of a sub-human hybrid. He was hump-backed and only 5’4” tall with arms that hung down to his knees. There was a sloped forehead, a large mouth, and a large lower jaw with protruding teeth. He grew up, being considered quite bright and affluent; enough that he found a wife (ugh) and lived a successful married life. He reached the ripe old age of 30, and was buried on the Colville Reservation.

Patrick had a full family life, siring three daughters and two sons that died early. The girls were Mary Louise, Madeline, and Stella, who also died early. Mary Louise lived near Omak and it was said that her paternal grandfather was a Skanicum, although she was relatively normal in appearance; although both girls were said to have protruding teeth, wide mouths, and were squint eyed.

Madeline lived near the Washington coast, and was said to be incredibly ugly, even by native standards. An alcoholic, she spent much of her time in taverns. Dr. Fusch is, last I heard, was unsuccessful in trying to track her down to get a DNA sample which might have been illuminating.

Here's the full text from the book by Dr. Ed Fusch entitled "Seweneytl And The Stick Indians Of The Colville":
THE STICK INDIANS OF THE COLVILLES
Choanito, Sc'wanay'tex and Skanicum

Among the various tribes comprising the Colville Confederation, Sasquatch was referred to by several different names but a common conceptual thread permeates all of their beliefs. He was always considered a human being, members of their own species. Prior to the arrival of the white man, the only people known to the Indians were other Indians and Sasquatch.

The Lake Band of Indians called him "Skanicum" which translates to "Stick Indian". Some Indians referred to him as "Scwe-ney-tum", derived from the original sc'wanay'tex meaning "stick (= woods) Indian".

To the Wenatchee Indians he was known as "Choanito" or "Night People."
Many Indians believed that Skanicum could turn into a tree. This belief derived from their interaction with him.

It is reported that a group of Indians followed Skanicum to a ravine through the bottom of which flowed a creek with the usual heavy growth of trees, brush, willows, etc. They sat down on the hillside where they could see the entire area including the hillsides. After a little while when Skanicum did not leave the ravine, some of the Indians went down into the ravine while others maintained vigilance from their vantage point. A complete and thorough search of the ravine yielded no sign of Skanicum, only trees, and they were certain that he could not have left the ravine without being seen. No Indian would dare to start chopping into the trees with an ax. Today, the Indians know all too well that Skanicum's color and natural camouflage enables him to stand motionless against a tree and be nearly imperceptible.

Incidents involving Skanicum and Choanito

Informants: Francis, an Indian woman, age 60 and niece to Patrick, described later, and her mother, Laura, age 85, are members of the Lake Band. Francis pronounces "Skanicum" as if clearing her throat with a mouth full of saliva. This interview with Francis on September 17, 1985, was followed by another with her mother, Laura, at her separate residence at Nespelem. Laura (deceased in 1987) verified everything as reported by Francis, adding many details. Laura relates that as a child she had a much greater interest in things, especially Skanicum, than other Indian women whom she knew. She would ask questions of her Grandfather and Grandmother who explained things to her and passed on many stories. As a child, from about the age of six, she would sleep outside and spend considerable time in the mountains alone, could identify and understood the many sounds that she heard, like the "iiieee" cry of Skanicum.

Back around the turn of the century (1885-1900) the Indians set up a fishing camp near Keller on the San Poll River ("D" on map, p26). In the evening the men would return, tired and hungry, to camp with their days catch. The women would work all evening processing the fish and putting it on drying racks to dry. While cooking dinner one of the women, a recent bride through bride-purchase, took a kettle and went off after water. Minutes later she was heard screaming. The men rushed to the scene but could only stand and watch as Skanicum carried her off. They knew that Skanicum was very vengeful and if harmed the captive may be injured and the mountains would not be safe for any Indian. As she was carried away, the captive tore off and dropped pieces of her white slip leaving a trail for the men to follow. She was with Skanicum all summer, or at least a couple of months, when the men searching for her on horseback saw her gathering wild potato roots.

Skanicum was asleep nearby. Upon seeing the men she emptied her lap of the potatoes, crept quietly to them, leaped on one of the horses behind it's rider, and thus escaped. Upon return to camp all of the Indians immediately broke camp and hastily departed the area. During her stay with Skanicum the woman had gathered roots, etc., which they shared. Skanicum eats anything that other people eat but lives primarily on roots such as that of the thule (tooly) or cattail plant, which they gather, dry, and store in caves. They build fires with flint stone and steal hides from Indians, which they use for bedding and to cover the entrance to their cave.

During her stay with Skanicum the woman became pregnant and bore a son named Patrick, who grew up on the reservation. Patrick's body structure was very different from that of other Indians as his arms were very long, reaching about to his knees. He was very short, about 5'4" tall (his mother was described as "tiny"), possessed a sloping forehead, very large lower jaw, a very large wide mouth with straight upper and lower lips, and straight protruding teeth. He was kind of stooped, or hump-backed. His ears were elongated upwards (peaked) and bent outward at the top. He had very large hands and long fingers, is described as very ugly although extremely intelligent. He attended school on the reservation, was "very smart", operated a ranch in the area, died at about the age of 30, and is buried on the reservation. Patrick is described as a "gentle" man, never beat or mistreated his wife. He married easily as he had a good ranch and was considered "affluent". From this marriage to Laura's cousin was born three daughters and two sons. Both sons died at an early age. The three daughters were named, in order from oldest to youngest, Mary Louise, now about 65 years old, Madeline, and Stella. Stella died at a young age. Mary Louise lives near Omak. A couple of summers ago Mary Louise spent several weeks with Laura. Mary had heard several times over the years that her paternal grandfather was a Skanicum and sought verification from Laura. Laura revealed all to her, confirming that her father was indeed half Skanicum. Mary Louise' physical appearance is relatively "normal". However, both girls have wide mouths (look like split from ear to ear), protruding teeth, and squint eyes. But Madeline, who lives on the Washington coast, has other very distinct Skanicum features such as sloping forehead, long peaked ears, etc. She is considered ugly by Indian standards, is an alcoholic spending much time in taverns. Patrick's wife, mother of these girls, is Laura's first cousin.

Francis met Patrick when she was a young girl about eight years old. She reports another incident in about 1982 when she and her niece were returning to Nespelem from Omak just after dark. About two miles from Omak near a gravel pit they passed a Skanicum standing alongside the road.

About a year later Francis and Laura were returning home when they stopped up on Keller Butte to eat chicken that they had brought back with them. They heard Skanicum scream only a short distance away. So close in fact that they quickly left the area. There is a cave near Kartar on the reservation where Skanicum is known to live.

Laura reports that some years ago she shot a deer not far from Nespelem. Being alone at the time and unable to load it into her car, she returned the next morning with her grandson. Several Skanicum were on the scene. One, a female, was standing just alongside the road and never moved as Laura drove by her, getting a good look at her. She looked human, was about six feet tall, her body covered with long brown hair, had a sloping forehead with ears that appeared to be pulled upward. Arriving at the deer carcass they found that the liver had been removed, as had the tender parts of both rear flanks. The skin had been carefully rolled from the hindquarters; the meat was very clean (she reiterates and emphasizes how clean the meat was). She and her grandson left the carcass as they found it and left the area. Laura states that there are areas just south of Nespelem and about two miles north of the Columbia River where she can call Skanicum (in his language, she knows how) and he will answer. She believes that they live in the area. At one time she encountered a large male Skanicum on the highway near Nespelem. It tried to converse with her, making organized sounds, leaving her to believe that they have a language. She left quickly.

Louie, a 79 year old male member of the Columbia-Moses Band, knew Patrick all of his life and remembers him and his family well. He worked for Patrick on his ranch around 1925-1930, describes him as a "pinhead" about 5' 4" tall, with larger than normal ears, mouth, teeth, and with large hands he was a very good card player who seemed to instinctively know what everyone else was holding.

Choanito

Among the Wenatchee Tribe, Sasquatch was known as Choanito, which in their language, means "NIGHT PEOPLE" and is pronounced Cho-a-ni-to.

Isabel, a 100-year-old Indian woman, member of the Wenatchee Tribe, gave the following report of an event, which occurred during her Great Grandfather's generation:

In the fall of the year, October, a group of male members of the Wenatchee Tribe were on a hunting trip near Wenatchee Lake. One of the men became separated from the rest of the party and was captured by Choanito. He was taken to a cave far up in the Rocky Mountains and held captive by a family of Choanitos through the winter until spring. The odor in the cave was terrible. They would not take him out hunting with them but made him remain in camp near the cave with the women. They were like a different tribe of Indians. In the spring they returned him to where they had captured him. Upon returning to his camp he was immediately recognized by the children who couldn't believe that he was back as he had been gone for so long. They thought that he had been killed. He had been well treated by Choanito.

Other Reports

Margie, an Anglo woman married and living on the reservation since 1984, reports that recently she and her mother-in-law had dug camas-roots, which they placed on the roof of their trailer near Nespelem Creek, where animals could not get at them.

During the night her mother-in-law heard Choanito on the roof. In the morning the camas-roots were gone and Choanito had put her puppy up on the roof. Choanito
is still very active in the area.

At night lights can be seen moving along the base of a nearby mountain as a pack of them travel along, and many have been reported on Keller Butte. People are always warned to be out of the mountains before dark.

Other Reports

Nancy, a 90-year-old Indian woman, reports that some years ago loads of Indians were taken to Yakima to pick hops. A woman living in her tepee at the rodeo grounds at the Indian Agency stayed home to tend her garden. She was captured from her tepee by Skanicum. The Skanicum was known to often steal dried salmon from the Indians in this area. Skanicum is known to live only in caves. He places willows over the door.

Vince, a 30-year-old member of the Lake Band and a friend of this author, reports that as a small boy his grandfather, who was a Blue Jay, took him far up on Moses Mountain to see Skanicum. He was told to be very quiet and he would see them. He did see Skanicum close up and reports "he was Huge" He knows of a cave going deep into the mountain that is reported to be a home of Skanicum. He has been inside the opening which he states is squared and smooth, appears to have been worked on with tools, and was covered with tree branches. Inside is a strong Skanicum stench. He was afraid to go further into the cave.

Postlude

With the realization that this study only begins to dent the surface of this subject, and having been able to interview only a very few tribal members, I welcome and am extremely grateful for any and all information, comments, and suggestions that I may receive. If you have any information or comments, please feel free to contact me at anytime,

You can read more of these stories at BigfootEncounters.com.

68 comments:

  1. What will these dreamers make up next?

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    1. Arla here, just wanted to say that this is all real. Oh and screw Meldrum and his windbag project, our data is still utterly amazing and we cannot wait to share it.

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    2. This incident has been well known for a long time. No one was able to get DNA from Patrick's remains without his descendant(s)'s permission. I think that would have been easier to attempt than going all the way to Russia & dig up practically an entire cemetery looking for the remains of Zana and her offspring.

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    3. Damn, arla you have truly lost your life's compass.

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    4. What will the trolls dream up next.

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    5. A half-breed 'pinhead' son of a mighty squatch that was a psychic card player? Never mind, that's not a troll dream, it's a fact.

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  2. "...he was a very good card player who seemed to instinctively know what everyone else was holding."

    Oh my God... they ARE telepathic!!

    Ok, interesting stories. But where is the living hybrid mentioned in the 1st article? More misdirection.

    Time for another 3 week break from this site. Oh I've tried to give it up, but "they" keep directing me back. Damn dirty apes, er, hominids! Get out of my head!!!

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    1. Good idea. I thought we reached the end of this human-bigfoot non-sense when the "Ketchum report" went south.

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  3. Hahahaha...what planet are we on?

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  4. Well now that we KNOW all of these "facts" all the more reason to kill one for a body. Nobody should have a problem with that now should they?

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    1. If it is true that BF can produce offspring with a contemporary human, then, it follows that BF is human. So, two thoughts on killing one. First, since they are rapists of young brides, Identify a volunteer (modern woman)to act as bait. See if she is stolen. Track her with both a GPS and Radio transponder and kill the BF when found... Maybe option II is to place BF on trial once caught with the option I volunteer red-handed, place him on trial. Since BF is human - he deserves a fair trial before execution. Yes, Yes, I know - very far-out options but no more far-out than the stupid ass crap I read on BF blogs.

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    2. Are servals and housecats the same species? No, of course not. They aren't even in the same genus. However, Savannah cats are possible and even can have offspring:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_(cat)

      Therefore it follows that two species that are not closely related can interbreed and produce fertile offspring.

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  5. Next we'll be hearing from the Bigfooters that Harry and the Hendersons was a documentary.

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    Replies
    1. "based" on a true story

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    2. Well, 451 already thinks Harry's a realistic suit.

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    3. That is one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.

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  6. Sally here:

    First off I wanted to say that people better think long and hard about whose side they are going to choose. Your a fool if you side with that media hound Meldrum over the Queen of dna research the great Dr. Melba Ketchum. Melba is the premiere name in Bigfoot research- hands down no debate.

    I also wanted to say that the best field researcher going is Melissa Hovey. You are all in for a treat when our Bigfoot special airs on lifetime.

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    1. Sally here:

      Many of you are already asking, but the Lifetime special will be called: Not Without My Bigfoot. Special appearance by Droopy in the role of a lifetime as Melissa Hovey and Sally Struthers as Melba Ketchum.

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    2. Plus... Sally Struthers will SOON be the spokesperson for Melba's Save The Sasquatch. What a difference you can make in the life of a Sasquatch for just $24.99/month -- less than the price of a cup of coffee per day.

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  7. I don't doubt for a second, that if there does turn out to be hybridizations of sasquatch and humans, this is how it would have happened. Female humans being kidnapped. How do you suppose denisovan dna got into humans in east asia? Or neathandertal dna in europeans? Think they made a trade? Not likely. That all the previous posters fancy themselves as comedians is acceptable and understandable, as it's just too easy to go there, though the humor is fairly weak. The truth is we're all a bunch of hybrids. More often than not, I would guess the humans females that did bear hybrids, did not get to go home.

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    1. If I'm proven to be a hybrid, do I get to live in my own forest? I think our government owes me that much for being partly Sasquatch.

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    2. Oh I like this. Now when I say things folk here don't like and they call me a hybrid I'll say "Damn proud of it too!" I learned here that if you repeat the same thing over and over it becomes true. So eventually I will be a hybrid and I'll get my own forest. I already have one picked out.

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    3. Melba here: Go ahead an laugh at these report of hybrids, when my paper comes out you all will see, and wish you would of been on my side. I just might include my study on hybrids if enough people are interested. Have a good day.

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    4. People don't like the truth, hence trolls exist. We like to be told lies so we have religion to comfort us, trolls don't like the ugly truth either so they play it down and deny the existence of this species. Some of use are just more grown up than others.

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    5. If you truly believe that, then please find a new interest. Yes, you must be a GROWN-UP to comprehend (and fall for) so much of this nonsense put before us.

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  8. Put Parnassus and Saskeptic on the case! Between them both they claim to have about 20 different academic and medical careers and still have time to post on the BFF everyday and all day. There's no way a real Professor like Meldrum can compete with these two Walter Mittys'. We should all feel lucky that these two gems have chosen to waste their lives discussing a mythical creature rather than use their fake professions for something useful...LOL

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    1. Off the top of my head Saskeptic has claimed to be a Wildlife biologist, Ornithologist, Wildlife ecologist, College professor, paper reviewer and has given three lectures/presentations on Bigfoot. The last one was an invite event for wildlife officials which included a warning to wildlife agencies about possible lawsuits from footers or some nonsense like that.
      On JREF he blasted Ranae Holland for being a biologist that is into Bigfoot. That it's a sure career and credibility killer. He must have forgot he told the footers on the BFF that he gives Bigfoot presentations at his college. DOH!

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    2. This subject attracts the oddest fucking people. The people who play the skeptic role are the most obsessed with it.

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  9. James you blithering idiot. You have obviously watched too many gieco commercials."so easy a caveman can do it". Do you get all misty eyed when the caveman gets bummed out?

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    Replies
    1. Truth hurts yes, even trolls can bleed.

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  10. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there someone with a blog that claims to be a Squatch or a Hybrid or something. He was raised by people and taught sign language or some BS? Maybe he is a hybrid.

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    Replies
    1. There are some who post here regularly. 451 should be able to recognize his kindred spirits.

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  11. Another bigfoot TALL tale.

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    Replies
    1. Another small troll denial.

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    2. Another "small troll denial" comment writer who is in denial regarding the non-existence of bigfoot.

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  12. Shawn at this site is deleting comments that he doesnt like. And if their inappropriate then thats fine, but hes selectively deleting the ones about him, rick dyer, snowpacker, etc. And leavin the ones about sally, hovey, and every other person hes jealous of. Why Shawn?

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    1. That's BS, some "overposters" just end up in spam folder. ip addresses get flagged dummy

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    2. It is BS. I'm a positive influence in Shawn's world and even I have had comments disappear into the Spam folder. The program picks up on multiple posts and keywords.

      Oh wait, this is a Bigfoot blog. It's a conspiracy!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! There. now you get it.

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    3. Looks to me that he's deleting a copy-and-paste job (spam) from SOME of the many posts it was attached to. Don't panic -- it's still there in a few places.

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  13. FWIW, The people doing the most work in this field are not sitting here posting crap about what others are or are not doing. The ones trying to get it right don't seek the lime light but stay in the shadows (woods) Seeking the truth. Later heros, 4am comes early, K

    F for W what I its W worth, For those less gifted :)

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    Replies
    1. Active field researcher here. I should just ignore the jibes and arrows from the loungeroom bound commentators but I cannot resist the urge to poke fun at hypocrites who state conclusions about everything without any evidence themselves.

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  14. So he was a sasquatch hybrid yet he ended up short? How does that work?

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    1. You do not know? Really! Oh my God... Okay, here it is, BF raped a Florez woman 400bp and that gene material of the offspring migrated Beringa and well, the rest is history.

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    2. @8:56....an interesting question. Should we speculate and risk the negative onslaught? What about the Liger? Male lion and female tiger hybrid that reaches 1000 lbs. because the size limiting gene(s) only existed (expressed)in the female lion and the male tiger. Do sapien sapiens have this same genetic feature? How are these size determining genes expressed in modern humans?

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  15. Interesting comments. One error that needs to be cleared up here. This is Dr. Bryan Sykes' project not Dr. Meldrum's project. Meldrum, like Team Bigfootology, was asked to be a part of Syke's project. Bigfootology was included because this was a joint brain-child of Team Bigfootology member Dr. Anna Nekaris who is a colleague of Dr. Bryan Sykes.

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  16. Does Anna have a nice dumplocker?

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  17. Meldra here,
    I work in a DNA lab which has confirmed that a hybrid has been identified in Southern Idaho; this is top secret, but around the lab we call it "Mormonster". Details will be forthcoming in the top journal in this field, the second week in July.

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  18. Saskeptic here,
    I am actually LindaSedlak, wife of a pathologist.

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  19. Too bad nobody asked this old Colville Indian granny about knocked up maidens:

    http://www.colvilletribes.com/history_everything_change_video.php

    new anony

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  20. "To tribal members, the Sasquatch weren't creatures, he said. "They considered them wild Indians, actually... The Indian saw him as perfectly human, and didn't require that he be hunted or killed," he said in a telephone interview on Wednesday."

    http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2005/jul/14/colville-stick-indian-legend-sasquatch-is-getting/

    Maybe the stories are conflating people who lived apart from the tribes...who knows, possibly banished for some reason etc. with the popular image of Bigfoot as an unknown primate. If they were identified as the same as them..."indians" there is no mystery regarding species etc.

    new anony

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  21. http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2008/jul/03/the-sasquatch/

    The Sasquatch

    By The Wenatchee World Staff

    Thursday, July 3, 2008

    Tall yes, but note the very human head of the statue.

    new anony

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  22. So none of this could be explained by genetic disorders or pituitary tumors ? Humans typically shun oddities, so it makes perfect sense that soemone suffering from perhaps dwarfism or is extremely large due to a pituitary tumor, they have been ostracized from the tribe. If you apply more common sense, you will recognize that the breeding population in some of these tribes may be extremely low, so there is a higher probability of inbreading and the increase probability of genetic disorders. So, instead of looking through the lens of common sense, we can bend known genetic or physical disorders into Bigfoot. You have to elminate the obvious before you can jump to a conclusion of Bigfoot. But then again, what fun would that be ?

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  23. Sasquatch here:
    Your women are hairless and ugly. I would not not touch one with a 10 foot wood knocking stick.

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  24. Melba here:
    I can't stop eating. Daily I leave hybrid DNA samples in my gigantic underwear. This is especially true with my thongs.

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  25. Native Americans will use anything to explain some of their ugly women.

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  26. Even in the article above it says: "...They were like a different tribe of Indians."

    Nobody would look at the popular representation of Bigfoot and conclude they are just another tribe of humans - native Americans. It is clear there is a mingling of stories. If they are humans then they were simply either another tribe or group that lived a much more primitive life style....speculate on them being a related hominid vs modern homo sapiens...but certainly not apes.

    new anony

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    1. Definitely a train of thought I have passed down before, because my first exposure to the subject was tribal legend (I'm not of aboriginal decent, but I grew up with those cultural teachings, through my grandmother's studies) and I can say that I have all but weeded out that theory. I'm not saying that it's not valid, just my opinion. It's probably REALLY valid... but, my local Native American carvings (masks, totems, etc...) show a great deal of detail, between species of known animal and also between the Sasquatch and Tribal People. They went to great lengths to accurately differentiating between the ears/face of a wolf and a bear, a eagle's beak and a raven's beak. Why embellish the Sasquatch, if they were simply a less civilized tribe? That's just not what they did.
      There's more to it than that, but there's a start... Now, I'm off to bed.
      David from the PAC/NW

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    2. humans don't treat humans like they are humans so what else can one expect?

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  27. Here's a video this story reminded me about. It kinda resembles what the bigfoot/human child looked like though this guy is super tall, and he could of just been a production of what inbreding does. Either way its interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/sh3dCM7-mrI

    though I'm half Japaese I can read some of it, the jist of it is pretty much he was abandoned in the village and the village pretty much gives him scraps of food. Um the video in chinese doesn't say he's a bigfoot hybrid they say somthing along the lines that they don't know whats wrong with him, inbreding is somthing they suggested, he was bullied by village kids until he became bigger. But I couldn't get the rest of it. Its really sad honestly, I wish they would at least give him some pants, and I hope they would be kinder to him since I don't think he knows whats going on..

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  28. interesting information on bigfoot. but who better than to have this kind of interaction with these creatures than our own native americans who have lived in the woods for centuries. How could they have not had some kind of interaction with these creatures they shared the woods. like to hear more. Totally interesting.

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  29. Is the new thing for BF groups to say they have amazing evidence they can't wait to release?

    whenzat ever going to happen?

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  30. why would you not get DNA from these so called hybrids that are still living huh?

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