Results of the nuclear DNA testing for the Bigfoot Steak [Sierra Kills]
Was Justin Smeja's Bigfoot steak really from a Bigfoot? Or was it from a coyote like Matt Moneymaker suggested?
Here are the leaked DNA results from one of Robert Linday's sources:
Sources have informed me of the following:
The steak was sent out to ~8 different labs to be tested on a blind basis. Nuclear DNA testing was part of the process. The labs were not told what they were getting and they had no idea what they were testing. Two of the labs were said to have “figured out what it was,” whatever that means, and honestly it doesn’t make sense in the context. The cost was $~11,000 per result, so ~$90,000 was spent on DNA sequencing of the steak. This cost was apparently footed by Wally Hersom.
From all eight labs, the results came back:
1. Not human.
2. Not any known animal.
3. “Unknown primate.”
A lot of the labs made communications to Ketchum along the lines of “What in the Hell is this we are testing anyway?” “WFT?” “WTH?” “Huh?” The labs were essentially dumbfounded and befuddled by the specimen, but they reported the results in official reports as they were paid to do.
#3. is important, because although the DNA matched no known living creature, it is primate DNA. I would go further and suggest that it is hominid DNA.
#1 is extremely important and cannot be emphasized enough. This is because the skeptic blogs keep repeating over and over that Ketchum’s results are “human DNA.” I can emphatically confirm that the results for at least the Bigfoot steak from the Sierra Kills were definitely “100% non human.”
The reason we know it is not human is because the genes are too far apart from human genes.
Say we look at 30,000 nuclear DNA genes. The results will be something like this:
Out of 30,000 nuclear DNA genes, the chimpanzee will differ from the human on ~1,800 genes. The Bigfoot will possibly differ from the human by ~600 genes. It is this distance in genes, and nothing else, that is apparently leading Ketchum to say that Bigfoots exist as a biological entity.
If you have a sample of 30,000 genes in which 600 of them differ from Homo sapiens, there is no way on Earth that we are dealing with “human DNA,” as the skeptics repeat in a near autistic, Tourette’s like fashion. I really wish we could put this to rest, but the skeptics keep banging their heads against this wall, so we have to keep answering it as redundantly as they ask it.
The steak was sent out to ~8 different labs to be tested on a blind basis. Nuclear DNA testing was part of the process. The labs were not told what they were getting and they had no idea what they were testing. Two of the labs were said to have “figured out what it was,” whatever that means, and honestly it doesn’t make sense in the context. The cost was $~11,000 per result, so ~$90,000 was spent on DNA sequencing of the steak. This cost was apparently footed by Wally Hersom.
From all eight labs, the results came back:
1. Not human.
2. Not any known animal.
3. “Unknown primate.”
A lot of the labs made communications to Ketchum along the lines of “What in the Hell is this we are testing anyway?” “WFT?” “WTH?” “Huh?” The labs were essentially dumbfounded and befuddled by the specimen, but they reported the results in official reports as they were paid to do.
#3. is important, because although the DNA matched no known living creature, it is primate DNA. I would go further and suggest that it is hominid DNA.
#1 is extremely important and cannot be emphasized enough. This is because the skeptic blogs keep repeating over and over that Ketchum’s results are “human DNA.” I can emphatically confirm that the results for at least the Bigfoot steak from the Sierra Kills were definitely “100% non human.”
The reason we know it is not human is because the genes are too far apart from human genes.
Say we look at 30,000 nuclear DNA genes. The results will be something like this:
Human Bigfoot Chimpanzee Human 0? 600 1,800
Out of 30,000 nuclear DNA genes, the chimpanzee will differ from the human on ~1,800 genes. The Bigfoot will possibly differ from the human by ~600 genes. It is this distance in genes, and nothing else, that is apparently leading Ketchum to say that Bigfoots exist as a biological entity.
If you have a sample of 30,000 genes in which 600 of them differ from Homo sapiens, there is no way on Earth that we are dealing with “human DNA,” as the skeptics repeat in a near autistic, Tourette’s like fashion. I really wish we could put this to rest, but the skeptics keep banging their heads against this wall, so we have to keep answering it as redundantly as they ask it.
Related:
The information is great and possibly earth shattering. BUT, where are the "official" lab results. Until the official DNA results are released, the skeptics will continue to re-state what they have been saying all along.
ReplyDeleteThats OK though, always makes room for good discussion until the results are published.
ReplyDeleteI just hope the governmant doesn't stop it and we get nothing!!! hehehe
Paul
This is a big blog report if accurate! Unfortunately still just hearsay. And, it begs to be believed..LOL, so does everyone in Bigfootery so beg!
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that our view of what DNA is human" only encompasses 20,000 genomes of 6 billion known to exist? Do I recall that Neanderthal is typically 300 variations different?
It would be a slam dunk I suppose if those differences were themselves significant in morphology of BF's (hard to assess that, unless they have a body too) or something known to be unique to humans such as HAR or FOX series genes?
One has to assume a leak of this nature still doesn't cross any peer--review raw data problem, so perhaps we shall the data soon. And so many secrets and rumors put to rest one way or the other and opinions formed on facts.
I think we all want this to be true, but I am afraid Ketchum's - and Erickson's- DNA results and footage will end up being delayed.. again.. and again... until it ends up being just another bump in BF history. Sad///
ReplyDeleteShawn I do have one question..seems to me I read somewhere there are specific reporting regulations labs must meet when testing primate DNA
ReplyDeleteI think born of the ethics involved with so many "test monkeys" etc.,and I believe it is simply a form where one identifies any sample that is primate biological material as being such?
How could would the blind labs not know they were testing tissue from a primate if those regulations were applicable? Obviously, Ketchum and the other players believed it was primate tissue. I don't recall where I read about the regulations governing primate testing.
This makes all the sense in the world that the results came back as not human. If you think back after Robert Lindsay reported who the Sierra Hunter was last summer and Justin Smedja never seemed worried about his prosecution because he knew the results were not human and you can't be booked for murder for killing a non human being.
ReplyDeleteI agree with anonymous 1
ReplyDelete"Until the official DNA results are released,..."
However, if this is all b.s. than Lindsay is being duped.
Pray tell, just when has anybody ever seen that much meat on a coyote??? unbelieveable!!!
ReplyDeleteWas Justin Smeja's Bigfoot steak really from a Bigfoot? Or was it from a coyote like Matt Moneymaker suggested?
@last anon
ReplyDeleteThats not the real Pic.
I think its a Sirlion. At least thats what I'm picturing in my head. Heavily salted, and a few dashes of pepper, seared on both sides to keep all the juiciness inside. mmmmmmmmm
Paul
Don't forget some onions and mushrooms with a dash of moonshine.
DeleteI wonder if Linday's source is the good Doctor herself.
ReplyDeleteRib Eye
ReplyDeleteI'm not willing to buy into yet. I sat on my seat's edge while CNN covered the refrigerator BF, so I'm not at all excited. Any way this turns out, all paths still lead to Smeja and what was a moment in time that cannot be taken back and a man killing a creature he wasn't licensed to shoot. Hopefully California has some serious laws about this and will pursue him. It should be only the beginning of a cascade of contempt and karma that should fall upon his shoulders. That a man like that is running around the woods with a gun is not reassuring and that he considers himself a human being even more pathetic.
ReplyDelete@autumnforest - Ive come to appreciate your posts - I too remember starting to think "this may be it" near the end of the georgia mess. No way I am ever going to let myself go there again. BF community needs scientific results. The way this keeps draggin on, and the more egos, pride, greed, become prevelant, the more I tune out. It would be even more tragic if hard evidence finally came out of humans killing this creature, but as a family, we sure are good at doing that...
ReplyDeleteand yes, that is a juicy ribeye steak!
ReplyDeleteMy bad.. I think I misread post..he was referring to testing only the 20000base pairs in a single individual sample? Which makes sense as that seems, so far, to be the overtly functional part.
ReplyDeleteSo, looking up (and from Wikipedia) it seems the database for the human genome are under one million individuals samples? Wikipedia say 400,000 in the Human Genome Migration project....so a volunteer thing ($100) and there is also the Personal Genome Project ($200) which I don't have a number for. Wiki says the Genbank data base doubles each 18months and includes 100,000species..suppose I could figure out how many in that..
I was surprised by Wikipedia's really pretty good articles and nicely linked on the Human Genome...and genetics...now off to how many samples represent our neanderthal genome, and the new hominins...lol i don't think we have a genome of H.erectus do we? Seems so ubiquitous still a candidate for our BF?
Wikipedia's discussion on variation is clearer than any I have read so far wrt to BF DNA and these samples.
He went to the authorities himself, they did not take him seriously, so no, he is not going to be charged with anything.
ReplyDeleteI've become convinced this is a hoax.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said, "However, if this is all b.s. than [sic] Lindsay is being duped."
I see it the other way around. I think he's part of the hoax machine. I'm not trusting Melba Ketchum much these days either.
When it comes to something of this magnitude,I have to remain neutral.
ReplyDeleteI don't know Robert Lindsay or his sources,and I don't know his track record.No disrespect intended.
This is something I need to read or hear officially,right from Dr. Ketchum.
In the back of my mind I still get the feeling something will happen which will prevent us from knowing the truth.
I am still very concerned and forever will be that once there is a determination that there is an unknown species out there, they will be hunted with every weapon available, killed, mounted and stuffed till they're wiped out!
ReplyDeleteI also suspect there will be variations in the species which will account for the color differences. I just don't know..they have remained elusive for so long and are to be admired and respected. I just don't know how to feel about this.
The only reason the Georgia BF farce got any traction is all was because of people's gullibility and the fact that N. Georgia is a hotspot for the real deal Sasquatch. That is all.
ReplyDeleteI agree with SasquaiNation, nothing has been revealed in a journal etc to prove the truth of these DNA allegations BUT nothing has been shown conclusively to be a HOAX either. So a neutral tone is needed because, as an observer, we can't say one way or the other yet if this is the real deal or Georgia pt2. We still have to wait- and to restate what others have mentioned the peer review publication process is long and drawn out so I wouldn't be surprised if we are sitting here reading about the unpublished results at this time next year.
ReplyDeleteSome people have waited decades for this and now we might have species documentation and people are losing patience with the process of science?
Have patience people- it's OK to NOT KNOW.
The data mentioned here completely blows my favorite hypothesis - that bigfoot is an orangutan relative. I guess it is a hominid of some kind after all. I can't wait to hear the comparison to denisova and neanderthal.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous Directly Above
ReplyDeleteI'm leaning very much toward it being a hoax at this point, but I agree with you that IF the creature exists, it must be fairly closely related to humans.
Gigantopithecus WAS more than likely a relative of orangutans because of where it was found. At one point (obviously) orangs existed in mainland Asia. So did gigantos.
However, in my mind, the morphology of sasquatch's foot rules out the giganto connection. There is no real proof gigantos walked bipedally. More than likely, the big toe was opposed to the other toes as it is in all the other great apes (except humans).
Only human ancestors and humans have the big toe in line with the other toes. I suppose it's possible a giganto or other large ape evolved the same foot morphology (convergent evolution), but it's much more likely that a relative of humans, already endowed with human-like feet, attained a larger size. Evolutionarily speaking, that is the most likely scenario. It takes much less time evolutionarily speaking, for a species to grow in height than it does for morphology to change to that extent.
Moving on to the PG film: If it is real, it shows an animal that is very different from an orang. I am, however, beginning to consider that the PG film is also a hoax considering Roger Patterson's predilection to lie, con and lie pathologically.
Still, the damn film looks real to me and I'm having trouble getting around that one obstacle. Today I watched one of the many bigfoot documentaries. A Hollywood makeup artist said he would have contoured the bottom of the foot to make it more than one color. He said the creature's suit was poorly done. In my mind, I'm thinking, "What about the loose skin on the arm? What about the bouncing boobies? What about the musculature? What about the fur following the pattern of the muculature?"
For some reason, it's always been in my mind that the creature (bigfoot or human in a suit) simply had sand on the bottom of its feet. If you look, the foot is the same color as the sandbar.
At this point in my mind, everything rests on the PG film. For me, it's the most convincing piece of evidence. The problem is it came from a man who couldn't tell the truth to save his soul.
Yet, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a fake. People who trot out the "Patterson was a con man angle" are precariously close to an ad hominem attack: "You are a liar; therefore, the film is a lie."
At least for now, the film is speaking for itself and as I said, it still looks real to me, dammit!
At the same time, my belief in sasquatch is around the 1% mark. A few weeks ago, I was about 35% sure the creature is real. The antics of Smeja, Erickson, Ketchum, Moneymaker, Lindsay, etc. have convinced me they're all full of shit. ;)
As you can see, I'm flip-flopping a bit on the Patterson film. I'd like to see some evidence proving it's a hoax. So far, all I've seen from skeptics is, "It looks fake to me."
SasquaiNation said: "When it comes to something of this magnitude,I have to remain neutral."
ReplyDeleteThat's perfectly OK. Richard Dawkins calls that position "temporarily agnostic in practice" and it's a legitimate position. I was there myself a few weeks ago. Now I'm at "permanently a-bigfootist in principle." Unless someone shows me the money, this is obviously a hoax.
At some point, you will come to a conclusion and you will also be "permanently 'something' in principle." I'm curious: How long will you wait before you say, "This is totally bogus"?
The only other option is that the evidence is finally released and we base our conclusions on how convincing it is. Everyone is acting like the evidence will be SO convincing it will win over anyone with an open mind. I still consider myself open-minded to the possibility. Hell, I'm open-minded to all possibilities provided the evidence is strong enough.
What if the released evidence truly is weak? Do you think those who believe will be angry with me if I don't sign on to the "bigfoot is real" brigade.
As I've said before, I HOPE bigfoot is real. That would be beyond awesome.
@AIF-
ReplyDeleteI believe Bigfoot is a real,living,breathing being.I say "being" because I'm not sure if it's related to apes or humans,but I'm leaning towards it being hominid.
What I'm neutral about is the study,or rather,the "leaked" information on the DNA.So far it's second and third hand information.
I can't accept that as valid.As stated above,I need to hear it officially or read it in a Journal.
We all know that hoaxes are out there.Some do it for kid fun,some do it to be a pain and some do it to see if they can trick "experts".
I think there are authentic videos out there as well.
People get burned and duped so many times that it becomes easier to dismiss honest sightings and label it a fake.
I'll watch a video for hours sometimes if I can't find holes in it.I've done frame by frame and some videos I can't punch a hole in.
Of course my only source of information comes from what I can find on the internet.I know the obvious fakes so I work from there.
Skeptics are a vital part of the Bigfoot subject,provided they bring intelligence,rationale and respect to the table.Otherwise they're just a common troll.
Hopefully that makes my position clear.
Cheers
I sent a steak I ate to scientists for DNA testing and the results where shocking to the scientist. The sample was classified as an unknown specimen. Yes Im the worlds first educated Bigfoot.
ReplyDeleteReally. How come you have never came forward. How can we meet you? Is it the government you are afraid of. I've been trying to find Bigfoot for a while now and it would be nice to meet one for once.
ReplyDeletei dont think the powers that be will allow the dna to ever be published, because it will reveal who we realy are as humans, get it two words lloyd pye
ReplyDelete@SasquaiNation
ReplyDeleteOf course I have to ask what you think of the Patterson-Gimlin footage. ;) How about the Freeman footage and the recent Kansas footage?
As I mentioned, PG looks authentic to me. The only problem I have is the cone sort of looks like some kind of hat to me. I've had issues with the feet off and on, but decided the light, uniform color was due to sand regardless of whether the subject was a real bigfoot or a man in a suit.
I haven't looked at the Freeman footage enough to decide.
The only recent footage that looks at all real to me is Kansas footage. I do, however, have a few issues:
1) Why did this dude have his video on? Seems contrived
2) Kansas? REALLY?
Since you watch these over and over, what is your take?
I am certain of one thing-bigfoot do not bathe regularly and have generally poor hygiene. I say this because I think it plays a large role in the "ape" theory.
ReplyDeleteImagine how a normal person of Eastern European descent- meaning they were very hairy- would look after spending ten years in the wilderness with no supplies. Think of how their feet and hands would appear, all calloused, discolored and broken nails. This person would have long hair and a long beard with there eye brows over grown and all their skin would appear dark due to exposure and lack of adequate bathing. There would be alot of scaring of wounds not treated properly. If you saw this person in the woods you would believe they were some type of ape.
The reason ape comes to mind is because in our minds a hairy human like naked creature is most similar to an ape as we do not have ingrained mental images of humans in this condition. If I let an alligator loose in a vermont lake and people could only see it at a distance its a log to them. Unless and until its proven otherwise they have no reason to question this assumption and wont.
Many of us have waited a very long time for this and knew the day would come.
ReplyDeleteyou dindn't here me the first time BIGFOOT DNA REVEALS WHO WE REALY ARE
ReplyDeleteGreat to hear from you John. Thanks for all the work and dedication you have given to the "big fella" over the many years. I have watched every documentry u have been apart of (except for one, we all know which one). You have always been incredibly insightful, and I have always apprieciated your honosty and intellect. Keep up the great work, and I really hope for people like yourself, with the years of dedication as a wildlife biologist, you get what you want to see. Its people like you that stay away from the antics and politics that some researchers stoop too, that make your opinions that more admirable. (Kinda my whole feeling about ketchum and erickson as well).
ReplyDeleteTake care
Oh, and also, you have me really excited now!
ReplyDeleteBIGFOOT DNA WILL REVEAL THAT HUMANS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE NATURAL EVELUTIONARY FLOW CHART
ReplyDelete@last anonymous
ReplyDeleteMeaning what? Are u saying AIF should start believing in God again?
NO NOT EXACTLY, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WAS SOME KIND OF INTERVETION
ReplyDeleteWWW.LLOYDPYE.COM ENTERVENTION THEORY CHECK IT OUT
ReplyDelete@J Bindernagle - Yes, you have! And so kindly too.
ReplyDeleteOf course I wondered if you were the "well known" author...but, for just a second...somehow I don't think you would write that particular story? At any rate...lets hope now we, as a people, can handle the news well!
For the last anonymous. For the past three years, the history channel has been running a series on ancient aliens that gets into what you are speaking about. To me it makes a lot of sense.
ReplyDeleteAlpha Dog-
ReplyDeleteYou have to remember that Ancient Aliens gives only one theory as to many things this theory involves aliens. If they did a show highlighting other series I doubt that you would put much faith in the alien theory.
Number 1 we have not and it is impossible to confirm if our interpretation of the information they left behind is accurate. Number 2 those theories ignore something that has been ignored for 100's of years that being "alchemy". Look at the current situation in the world regarding oil- ancient people very likely had access to elements that are now simply so rare we do not think they exist or have been used up. Cal Berkely has a machine that turns lead into gold- the energy required costs about a million dollars to make one once of gold- which is why things have not changed much.
Of every conspiracy theory I believe one related to alchemy makes the most sense and is precisely the type of thing world governments would want to keep quiet- formulas involving things found in the natural world can't be regulated. If people knew how to use certain elements that are commonly found think of the damage that could be accomplished.
The real reason there would be a coverup by the government is because Bigfoots existence would destroy the "science" that is accepted as fact. We made a very big mistake of building on certain factual scientific principles- scientists took facts and made many conclusions that instead of remaining theories were taken as fact and considered fact and now form a large basis of modern science. The truth is we dont what animals went extinct yet took their extinction as fact. Also how we date fossils and other materials- you can use radio carbon dating to date certain materials if certain things are exactly right- variables we dont take into account can and do influence the computations and this is ignored. Modern science has departed from traditional principles and now takes things as fact when we have not proven these things to be fact only likely.
If Bigfoot were all of a sudden acknowledged people would question why all the governments and scientists were so wrong about this. Then they would look at the real evidence- the journal entries of people like Daniel Boone, Davey Crocket, the early spanish explorers and the native american culture and say that we were intentionally duped and will then begin to question almost all scientific principles even the ones that are not true. To use a house analogy we would tear it down to the foundation when the proper course would be to "gut the house" and replace the roof.
The governments want to avoid this because it would seriously complicate things. Would it put the world on its side- no- but it would seriously impact the view we have of many individuals that we consider genius's. Acknowledging Bigfoot would show that the government said something they never verified. The government never did studies or looked for the creature so it would show the government said and did something, that being telling us to take something as a fact when they did not have the evidence to draw this conclusion.
We would then ask how many other times they have done this.
thats what im getting at bro
ReplyDeletewe as a community need to stop arguing about the existence of bigfoot and others and turn the conversation back on science and ask why arent they doing there job and why are the complisit in mass cover-up
ReplyDeleteSmeja should open a chain of Bigfoot Steakhouses.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be funny if the whole point of The DNA Project was to have all the best evidence of Bigfoots Existance collected from across the Americas then destroyed by through testing and no Journal ever accepts it. Could the Feds be behind a devilish plot to never let this creatures existance proved to the general public ! Stay Tuned !
ReplyDeleteWhy can't we just leave them alone? Let them live in peace. We never hear any attacks against humans. The mitochondrial DNA says they are part humans. I am sure they have feelings like we do.
ReplyDeleteWhen consumer testing is done with human DNA, like Family Tree DNA or 23andMe, of the 700,000 to 1,000,000 base pairs tested, 70% are the same and 30% are not. The select from the most likely base pairs that might change. he haploid human genome contains about 23,000 protein-coding genes, out of over 3 billion base pairs.
ReplyDeleteOnly one base pair change, or polymorphism, is required to make a significant change or even turn a gene off. When they have a gene that is turned off in humans it is called a pseudogene. That we do not grow hair all over our body is one such pseudogene.
Since they are sampling from all over the genome, they are including 1000s of genes. Having a difference of 600 genes could be the difference between you and one of your parents or cousins.
Two things are significantly different between living hominids and primates. Humans have 23 chromosome pairs instead of 24 like a primate. The other is there is a significant difference between the mitochondrial DNA of humans and primates. The key area is in a section where the use of energy is; cytochrome c oxidase.
its funny that we are human. and I see posts that one human from the next cant even guess what that cut of meat is, in said picture. So, why are are we still even listeng to each other on a topic that our own cannot even identify their own.Blind leading blind."ya, what HE said!"....
ReplyDelete