It's not about the bloggers, it's about what went wrong with the Ketchum study
Editor's Note: This is a guest post by Mike A. a Sasquatch enthusiast and a member of the Facebook group, Team Tazer Bigfoot (not actually a Team Tazer member).
So, the Ketchum Study...it seems destined that this is going to turn into yet another culture war within the squatching community, so be it.
First the facts: The paper is claimed to have been submitted to peer review within the US, and was rejected. It is allegedly now seeking peer review in Russia. If these "facts" are not true then the Ketchum camp should step out and clarify where things are without all the skullduggery that has recently occurred. The simple fact is many a rumor has been thrown into the mix of late and the onus is on them to clear up any falsifications, it is after all, THEIR paper, THEIR study.
The opinion: I will wait and see on the Sykes study, that one might have a chance in hell, on the other hand, the Ketchum study was doomed early on. First it revealed that the Doctor was in fact a Veterinarian, not some sort of Geneticist. If true, this is a big blow to the study because a Vet simply isn't qualified to sequence DNA.
There were also claims that she had PHD's on her team, but one should ask oneself, why would a PHD sign onto such a study if the person leading the effort is unqualified. That just doesn't make any sense. None. Again if these facts in different, then I invite the Ketchum camp to public clarify. After all it's only been four years. And if the statement is true, one can have a PHD in a great many things. Are they qualified? You already have one allegedly exposed Vet, so it is a fair question.
Then the silliness began; the fallen angel claims, the alleged rape claim, and here I can't emphasize enough, if only for the sake of competent damage control, if these are false claims, the Ketchum camp needs to get out there and aggressively dispel stupid rumors such as these. If they did come from the source as claimed, that is in fact what's sad about all this. It amounts to the effective kibosh on any credibility on what was a supposed scientific study. And claims like these frankly insult the entire community, regardless of where they came from.
The two bit opinion: the response to the provocation for this editorial: Over the weekend there was a dust up over the Ketchum study, but it quickly morphed into a blogger dispute between one side doing their usual tabloid style exploitation of any bigfoot related story, good, bad or indifferent. It doesn’t matter to them, because they are reporting for profit. Could they moderate their blog? Yes they could, and clearly don't. BUT, is that the point of all of this? No, it is not.
On the other side, you have “the other side” calling to ignore these blogs, and to be nice to everyone in the community, I call this the "haters gotta hate" school of thought. Does this kind of opinion also completely miss the bigger point here? Absolutely. Does the community owe it to Dr Ketchum to be nice, and overlook the rejection of her paper, the claims that have been made? Is she owed some celebrity status in the community when this is her contribution after 4 years? No, in fact, hell no, the community expected and deserves better. The reverse is true actually. After 4 years, if the end game for her paper is rejection in peer review, so be it, accept it and move on. If not, apologize for the circus that came with it. It's not as if the whole thing did much to advance the efforts to make subject acceptable in mainstream science's eyes, if that kind of thing matters to you.
Is it okay, to dismiss deserved criticism as "bullying" and call the critics hateful people who should look into their own lives? Nope. That's just sad, it's just making excuses and for what I am hard pressed to even tell. It's not about being nice and participating in some popularity contest or mutual admiration society. It's making excuses to cry "meanie" and ignore the soap opera that this "study" created. Other side of the blog war also calls for cooperation, and yes that’s a very noble sentiment, but cooperate with who exactly?
The youtube hoaxers? The tabloid bloggers? The forest friend types who would insist that you accept that the creature is an interdimensional, paranormal indigenous people among other things? Those who are only in the whole thing to make a buck? Cooperate with the hoaxers, the exploiters, those who hold the subject in a very dubious relation with reality? I'll pass because cooperating with such folks will produce nothing to advance the cause. Cooperate with this study which has become a farce? I'll pass there to.
It's about standards people, and the community can do better than what this became. You could have had an actual qualified scientist leading the study. You could have had less of a marketing effort because the paper should be done without pressure from the community to "produce", it should happen on the study's merits. And the whole sum total of whacky claims should never have been allowed to occur.
In summary: This has nothing to do with the beefs that bloggers have with one another, nor bullying, or tolerating hoaxer/tabloid/fringe nonsense and the like. It's about asking of higher standards of the Community if it wants to be taken seriously by those not in it. It's that simple and all the other shenanigans just skirt the issue.
Does my 2-bit opinion make me "troublemaker", "meanie", "troll", etc, etc, all because I am calling a farce when I see one. Maybe I'm not going along with the program. Maybe the “program” is part of the problem?
haters
ReplyDeleteApparently, you haven't been paying attention. Ketchum has addressed the rumors. She is "some sort of geneticist". And you, if you have demanded proof in the past, especially from habituators, do owe her the decency of being professional because she is trying to provide what those in the community have been asking for for years. This entire article is woefully misguided and lacks logic at every step. But I guess ignorant opinion trumps patience and tolerance at every turn.
Delete"Editor's Note: This is a guest post by Mike A. a Sasquatch enthusiast and a member of the Facebook group, Team Tazer Bigfoot."<--- More whining by Team Tazer.
DeleteYes they're a pretty pathetic bunch aren't they kind of anti discovery activity.
DeleteFirst again?
ReplyDeleteSHIT!
ReplyDeleteStop with the first crap
ReplyDeleteI am a serious blogger with Angel DNA Ketchums hot and smart
DeleteAll I want for Christmas is my two front teeth.
ReplyDeleteWell one thing is for sure. Mike A. loves the use of the comma and indulges in the delight of the run-on sentence.
ReplyDeleteHe also has a thing for rhetorical questions and sentences with parallelism problems.
DeleteAnd don't forget he's a total idiot like all the other TazerToons out to whack Ketchum's study either because they're MIBs or just plain old stupid - and that it's merely the latter is getting tougher by the hour to imagine.
DeleteI wonder what the A. In Mike A. stands for.
DeleteI don't
DeleteThis "article" is supposed to be a sober opinion? What a childish little idiot. Another grown up with a junior school rumor spreading mentality. Team Tazer has nothing to contribute except gertrude gossip. Little girls calling classmates "totally uncool". They should just go about trying to taser a bigfoot, and good luck with that. The most qualified experts in the genetics wouldn't touch it. The science Ketchum did is done. She has no obligation to anybody else in the bigfoot "community", if there is such a thing. The paper she wrote IS still under review, after revision. It's what is expected, and the time table it has taken for such a controversial rumor prone subject. She wasn't the first choice, but she was game. This idiot (Mike A.) speaks of rumors put out by others, as fact. What a low life. Ketchum owes you nor any of us nothing.
DeleteYeah Melba owes you nothing, she has worked so hard on this she deserves the book deals, movie rights, magazine articles, tv shows and anything else she can exploit to make a buck!!! The woman is a saint you bastards!!!!!
DeleteShe deserves the fame and the money! She sacrificed her own well being and was mind-raped in her selfless quest to find answers for the bigfoot community.
DeleteIf you think someone you don't know personally owes you something, you have entitlement issues. You need to put your big boy pants on.
DeleteOya boya self entitlement 5 th mike I have just heard of with this problem I personally know 3 I'm beginning to think there is a problem here we should alert everybody hell it's just a thought but let us just run with it like it's fact everyone tell someone
DeleteI keep my poop in a yeti scalp.
ReplyDeleteAnd how does that make you feel?
DeleteI keep mine in an old Sasquatch testicle sack.
DeleteThis is bullshit. You can be a serious scientific researcher and take seriously them claims that bigfoot may in fact be some sort of interdimensional being. How else do you explain the constant blurry photogrphs, the
ReplyDeleteMind rapes, the telekinesis? The angel DNA and blueberry bagels together form cohesive story about some sort of time traveling hominoid that roams our forests to mind fvck the shit out of us bleevers. We need a body. But who is willing to put their very psyche at risk to face the telekinetic menace?
Are you slow or something? The Angle crap is not true.
DeleteApparently anon 6:43 is slow. Mental IQ = 25. gullible SOB.
DeleteTelekinesis?! Carrie versus Bigfoot.
DeleteThere's no such thing as angles? Then why do we do trig in high school ?
DeleteYou guys best on your tinfoil hats or the foots will scramble your brainwaves with an electro magnetic pulse blast. I've been zapped before by them out in Washington state. It fucks you up big time.
DeleteThere's a tater in the hole!
ReplyDeleteBOOOOOOM!!!!
DeleteBE troll. ^
DeleteSucked his mom's titties until he was twelve.^
DeleteDoes Niagara Falls?
DeleteCould someone please explain to me WTF "mind-rape" is and what is its connection to Ketchum?
ReplyDeleteMelba claimed that she was raped by the spirit of a male Sasquatch while she was in her bed, she said it on a phone interview. She said that it left her soar in the genital area the next morning, due to the eminence size of the Squatches throbbing member.
DeleteWhat phone interview? Link please.
DeleteIs this for real? How the hell is anyone in the mainstream scientific community supposed to take her or her work seriously when she makes these outrageous statements? Mind-rape? The stick structure photos and takes of braiding horse hair weren't bad enough. Sheesh. No wonder its so hard to get people to take footery as anything but a joke.
DeleteDon't believe everything you read on a public blog.
DeleteTom Barnette said the same thing in his book "Nature's Secret Agents". He also has a pic of a baby squatch skull in book
DeleteThis crap about Melba is made up! Anon 7:40 if your that gullible then you might someday be a victim of scammers. Seriously? Just wow.
DeleteStop writing silly questions BE and attempt weak responses yourselves. LOL
DeleteAll you Melba doubters are going to look ridiculous when this paper is published in Science. And it's going to be even more funny when Melba loses it and goes all Carrie on the skeptics with her newfound mental powers gained from psychologically communing with the foots.
DeleteShe had just fallen asleep while watching the movie The Entity.
DeleteI wouldn't believe anything Robert "Stranger Danger" Lindsay has said. If you do you're a bigger idiot than you think Melba is.
DeleteWell said!!!
ReplyDeleteHey, has anyone tried commenting on the bigfoot chicks blog? Let's just say if you plan on going over there loaded to the gills with nonsense and foolishness, don't bother. I wrote one thing last night and they deleted that shit in a heatbeat. Lol!
ReplyDeleteIf you would of offered them free food you could of done anything McCheeser.
DeleteThey can't handle the Mayor.
DeleteThat's why this site is so cool we can be as stupid as we want :)
DeleteAnd how does that make you feel?
DeleteWith my hands, mostly
DeleteThat's what I tell the wife.
DeleteLots of women are intimidated by me cause I'm packin' so much meat!
DeleteThat's right!You old meat packer you.
DeleteThey must hate the Mayor cuz Mcdonalds made them fat!
DeleteThe mayor likes meat between his buns! He should be talking about man love because his cheeseburger symbol is one of gay love!
DeleteWhere's the BEEF?!!
DeleteYou mean bigfoot chicks don't like boners? I am mortified!! We should all pick a time and go over there with our meat jokes!
Delete
DeleteDamn you must of been bored to tears to go to the chicks blog Mayor.
Wow that's two articles today by people actually talking sense for a change! No freezer body conspiracy theories or cute animal videos but people with brains making good valid points! I'm just waiting for the backlash because this guy is Team Tazer, it's getting very Twilight are you Team Tazer or Team Ketchum ????
ReplyDeleteCan't we all just get along?
DeleteLmao!!!
Of course, the guy's a damn TT.
DeleteYeah damn TTs!!!! What's a TT?
DeleteReally have you just come here to see people abbreviate everything
DeleteI'm tired of going to the bathroom and looking at the wifes douche bottle hanging from the shower curtain rod.
ReplyDeleteGlad you spelled douche correct there!
DeleteYou have know idea what I have to endure just to go take a dump.
DeleteYou should start poopin in jars
DeleteMoron ^
DeleteKilii her and bury her in the basement. You will become paranoid and feel more and more guilty about it, until you go insane and blather out a confession. Happened to meand I wrote a story about it: "The Tell Tale Douche"
DeleteThen you start giving yourself enemas to keep your brain clean I've heard this one before
Delete*sigh*. Moderate?
DeleteI can't stand these tazer idiots that just want attention to their stupid opinions. All they do is attempt to elevate themselves by criticizing others. Chief among is the self aggrandizing blow hole Merchant whose whiny blabberings like a family tree from the Torah. That is all that they are capable of. Sure the Ketchum camp has screwed things up, but the first screwup was to respond in the first place. They should now just shut up and wait for the outcome of their submission and not take the bait attention whoring arm chair researchers who know jack about research nor do they produce any.
ReplyDeleteWhere has your research been published ?
DeleteMD, PhD and DVM are all considered legitmate degrees for running research or diagnostic testing labs. This guy is talking out his arse.
DeleteI am a Team Tazer Idiot, you dumb ass. I am more qualified then any on Melba's team to run the DNA tests and to read the finding as well. Melba never even put in the 8 to 12 years of schooling needed to earn a degree for working this field. She is just a veterinarian and not a very good one at that. She is not a scientist, not even close.
DeleteI put in plenty of years of hard work, almost four times the amount that Melba has and unlike her, I graduated the top of my class! I like how you put down Michael Merchant with out even knowing who he is. He is a field Biologist, who has more schooling then Melba and he has more knowledge then her too, he is more qualified to run the DNA testing and reading of it.
Oh I like the anti-Jewish remark about the Torah you Nazi Bastard, the Torah is the old testament from the Bible.
No, you're a fucking no good piece of slime now jump off a building.
DeleteMichael Merchant....a field biologist that thinks a deer snort is a bigfoot. Michael Merchant...the serial idiot...has admitted in one of his little douche-bag temper tantrums that he has little to no understanding of anything scientific that has to do with DNA.
DeleteAnon 7:55....I recommend that you go back to sucking MM's taterhole and quit talking nonsense.
Yeah you tell him anon 8:22 and then get back to your ground breaking Bigfoot research that you've been doing for decades!
DeleteAss 8:22...clue me in on any ground breaking research that this primadonna has been apart of. Oh wait...none. He's noting more than a narcissistic moron that is churning out stupid ass videos trying to get attention. Going camping and getting scared by deer and interviewing a bunch of people is no where near ground breaking. But keep telling yourself different...dick.
Delete"Michael has more schooling and knowledge then her. So do I. But I don't know that it is grammatically correct to say THAN her, not then her. 'Cause I have schooling."
DeleteOh anon 7:55 must be the one filming Merchants videos. The only thing you are qualified to do is suck Merchants dick! To even try to defend Merchant shows what a fucking retard you really are. If you want to impress someone try coming up with some real evidence. Team GAYzer what a fucking joke. Go crawl back under the rock you came out from. I can't believe Shawn lets these posts go up. Oh well every time he does he shows his association with you morons. Jealousy is such a bitter pill to swallow
DeleteAnd you swallow that pill just fine.^
DeleteYou know another bitter pill to swallow Xanax and enough of those and I'd write long winded statements stick up for merchant hell I may walk to the nearest woods converse with animals and find out where Bigfoot is hiding so I may converse with him too oh yeah then I'll go in my back yard and make retarded videos constantly
DeleteI have been reading all the comments concerning the Ketchum paper since they started appearing on this blog. Up to this point I have not commented on anything. I am not a scientist but I believe nobody should comment on this until this has passed peer review and published. However, realizing of course that this is a public blog and everyone has a right to an opinion I do defer to all of you and your enlightened comments.
ReplyDeleteThere is one thing I would like to make a point on. As a business person I look at all this scuttlebut in one way and only one way. Why would Dr. Ketchum risk her business for the sake of covering up, making excuses, or purposely exposing data prematurely? If her findings are worng, she will ultimately hurt her business and way of earning a living. If she is found to have been a fruad or incomptenet then all of her normal every day business will suffer, I gurantee it. Either Dr. Ketchum is reckless and stupid or she has something in her back pocket that's going to support her study. I'm open minded enough to take a wait and see attitude.
You my friend are ignoring the other possibility, which is, Dr. Ketchum is vein forced to act in a bizarre and reckless manner because of her mind-raping by the squatches. If the squatches have control of her mind, they will be making her say and do all manner of ridiculous things to discredit her. If mainstream science continues to view footery as a clown show, the foots will remain safe and hidden. Just the way they want.
DeleteShe looks like she's old enough to retire so she probably doesn't care that much about her career.
DeleteI said the same thing the other night as the Anon at 7:22 and was called an idiot. Just sayin'. I read the comments that make sense, but also like a good joke, not straight-up hatin'. I hate to say it though, Ketchum's joke is wearing thin. I think the paper is in Russia. Why else would she have anything to say right now. I'm afraid her last five minutes of those 15 minutes will end as Janice Carter stories. She may as well roll the video for us all to see. It's almost over and done, show the videos.
DeleteI just love the way these TT/BE clowns write positive Ketchum comments hoping no one will smell it then wait a sec and have the next clown come in and say things like, oh no understand that Melba's crazy and she does this, blahblah.
DeleteI told the nun multiple times that i was hung like a babies arm and she.........opps wrong blog!
ReplyDeleteGo on...
DeleteYou are all a bunch of fucktards! Instead if trying to be "first" or shitting in jars and talking about tater holes. Fucking nerds.
ReplyDeleteDon't make me take my belt off young man!
Delete...and then rape you!
DeleteOld Testament, Koran, Greek 'mythology', Roman 'mythology', others, all have this same business of gods mating with humans creating great men, maybe giants. Similar to how many of these major religions have the flood story. So do native American tribes (have the flood story in their heritage). Might be super silly to dismiss all in a crazy uncontrollable kneejerk way characteristic of science types with concrete skulls.
ReplyDeleteNo it wouldn't be silly at all, infact it would be quite rational. They all make for nice stories but that is exactly what they are should we also believe in Minotaurs, talking snakes or flying horses? The Koran has no stories about God creating any offspring including Jesus who they believe was just another prophet not the son of God as giving him human traits takes away his divinity. Sorry religion was a way our primitive ancestors sought to explain things they didn't understand and keep the population in line. It's all just stories and the work of men maybe centuries from now people will worship Jack Reacher or Superman?
DeletePretty ignorant and dismissive comment based on nothing but conjecture. I have heard fools like you toss this idea about like it is some sort of fact. It's nearsighted, ignorant, and irresponsible to dismiss beliefs that have been handed down for generations that are shared by the majority of this planets inhabitants. People in the millions have died for these beliefs and to disregard that is absolutely dumb as hell.
DeleteNo not all they died needlessly for those beliefs I'm sorry that it happened but fighting a war over fairy stories is pretty silly don't you think? That's the problem with many of these beliefs is they were handed down like chain whispers each time someone added their bits on! You honestly think the bible is word for word straight from God himself? Really do you? If any of it is true where's the evidence? There are many religions which one is correct? Christianity, Islam, Scientology, Buddism, Paganism or how's bout Satanism? It's totally rational to disregard all religions, if you don't like what I say then turn the other cheek :)
DeleteDidn't say the Bible was word for word from God now did I? It's useless to point out a little known science called archaeology that does a real good fucking job at backing up historical claims made in the Bible. But hey, disregard history all you want and keep telling yourself that it's all fairy tales. Satanism and scientology more recent incarnations of people's beliefs. What the OP was alluding to was the more ancient ones that shared the same common beliefs such as the flood and things of that nature. You in your high wisdom get on here and post absolutes which you absolutely cannot qualify.
DeleteBut I respect your right to chime in with your nonsense. Although I think it's utter bullshit.
Oh, and if you don't like what I say you can turn the other cheek or just go fuck yourself. ;)
I was actually asking you a question on whether you believe the Bible is the literal word of God or not. The ancient religions of Greece, Rome or Native Americans? Yeah they make for great stories sure I said that before but that's really exactly what they were right? If you accept one thing from a faith then why not the rest? You accept a great flood then why not boys raised by wolves, sirens dragging sailors to their doom and people turned to stone by snake headed women? So you just cherry pick things that line up with things in the Bible and throw away the rest? What historical claims from the Bible have been backed up by archeology exactly and if you tell me they've found Noah's Ark like some other fruitcake did the other week I swear I'll cry laughing!
DeleteYou see that's the problem the atheists have with you guys, it's like we have this holy book that tells us everything but we pick and choose the bits we want to agree with!
Common shared beliefs. The great flood is shared by many cultures that have had no connection with each other. Angels or spiritual beings coming down and mating with earth women. No one is cherry picking anything.
DeletePeople and places and events have been proven by archeology. I'm not talking about the things that God said to people or stuff like that. It use to be a common belief that King David was a myth but now archeology has proven otherwise. The battles that had taken place between Israel and other surrounding nations at the time have also been proven. Not everything has but that's why they are still digging.
All cultures believe that some sort of intervention between humans and other beings happened. It's not rational to dismiss a world wide belief system that is shared by cultures that are oceans apart. If we write off their beliefs because we have this misguided understanding that what they believe is based on magic hocus pocus nonsense and not on how they came to understand and label the things they saw and experienced then we are hindering our search for answers to our origins. You're claim would have some merit if there was an indigenous tribe that was discovered or some trace of a culture that was discovered not to have these types of beliefs. Thousands of early Christians were dying at the time the religion popped up. These were the people that were closest to its origin. To say they died because of a fairy tale is just an immature assumption. Christ was a real person...what he did and how he did it can be seriously questioned but to suggest he was a fairy tale is irresponsible.
One more thing...you mention the idea of these monsters such as the minotaur. Now I am not saying these things were real but what I do want to point out is the ability to make things like this is present today. If there was some sort of other worldly intervention back in the day whose to say these things didn't exist. And I am not all up on the Ancient Alien crap either. Its just something to take into consideration.
DeleteChrist did not exist, there is zero proof of him existing. The Christians were fed to the lions but when Roman accepted Christianity it spread it with an iron fist through out it's empire forcing people to accept their faith and reject those old polytheistic faiths you were talking about. As the Roman empire fell it transformed into the Roman Catholicism empire that dictated from the centre of the faith in Rome and spread to new lands forcing other people to accept the faith or die and of course anyone who didn't agree was tortured and killed. It also extorted money from people forcing people to pay tithes and got richer and richer. Ironic really, a guy preaches tolerance, compassion, understanding and then makes the ultimate non-violent protest and creates the intolerant, uncompassionate, unaccepting and warmongering faith the world has probably seen. So forgive me if I have no compassion for those early Christians as they kinda created a monster.
DeleteI would say there are probably many, many shared beliefs among ancient people like human sacrifice, using women like animals, cannibalism and all kinds of lovely polythesitic notions that we would dismiss today. However, like I mentioned people like to cherry pick things from them like floods and God's screwing who ever to create lovely little Demi-gods (or Superheroes?) so it backs up their religious beliefs about an Ark or whatever. If I was a psychologist (which I'm not) I could more than likely give you a fantastic explanation about the desperate need humans have to believe in things and how floods would affect all countries and cultures of the world, it rains too much, it floods no wonder there are big flood stories. There are also tales of great heroic acts, of people with faith overcoming great obstacles, stories of betrayal, murder, death and rebirth all shared histories but also things that all people experience. It could be the plot of the best selling book in the world or the Matrix, they are stories and campfire tales nothing more. Yes sometimes they include real people ( the best stories do) but it doesn't mean that the events they are involved in are true it just means someone has given the story historical context.
You know what really makes religion tick it's reward, dangling a carrot on a stick in front of you if you follow me when you die you'll go to a better place! It's fear too, fear of death, fear of not being a good follower and fear of God ultimately and who would want to pray to such a nasty, petty and vengeful God. These religions exist because people wanted answers that we now look to science for and they exist because it makes people feel good to believe in something and because people don't like to think of themselves as animals they don't like to think death is the end and after that you're worm food.
Oh as for Ancient Aliens or Chariots of the Gods or what ever I do believe in life on other worlds but why would they come here? The ancient beasts of Greek mythology were myths not real like Batman or Ninja Turtles they were just a good story.
DeleteTo Anon 11.19 - not to get into a religious debate, but from a purely historical point of view, there is evidence that Jesus Christ existed. Josephus mentions him within a lifetime of when he is said to have lived, as do later writers like Tacitus, Lucian, Philopon, Mara Bar-Serapion, and some Jewish writings from the time (I think Suetonius does as well). The passages in Josephus I believe was altered somewhat by later Christian scribes but not to the point where it was actually made up and inserted wholesale. You must also, to a certain extent, view the Bible as an historical document. It may not have much weight and some parts more than others, but it must have some. The fact that Christianity developed so quickly after the death of Christ also strongly indicates the existence of a real man who inspired belief in a portion of the local population(justified or not) and for whom the disciples were willing to spread the word and suffer horrible deaths. There is also evidence of some of the officials involved in the trial of Jesus.
DeleteIt should also be remembered that at the time of his life and death, he was not particularly remarkable, nor was the manner of his death. "Miracle men" were not uncommon and his trial and execution were merely a provincial (and Jewish rather than strictly Roman) matter of no real apparent consequence to the empire at large worthy of real note or record (perhaps in legal records) - that only came once his message began to be widespread and the religion developed. You must view the issue in its real historical context. The way in which religion was used thereafter has no relevance to the question of whether or not Jesus actually existed as a historical person.
The general historical consensus is that Jesus the Nazerine was in fact an historical person. Whether or not he really worked miracles or was really (or regarded himself) as the son of God is another question entirely.
Yes, before you accuse me, I am a Christian, but I'm also a Roman historian (of the later Roman period) who has done some study in Christian and Jewish history as well as the development of Christianity as a religion in the empire.
Also, ancient myths are lot more complicated than simple fantastical stories.
I don't mean to be argumentative, just pointing out a few things I've come across in relation to the question :)
Isn't there also amoung historians a group that take the opposite stance on Jesus' existance and claim there is not concrete evidence that this man existed? Don't they maintain (as you stated) that Josephus' writings were not only altered by later Christian scholars but that the sections relating to Jesus were actually inserted or fabricated by Euseblus over 300 years later? Don't they maintain that this text is different to the other texts around it as it suddenly shifts from one story to the text on Jesus and then back to the previous story almost as if it had been cut and pasted in later? Isn't it true that these same historians maintain that the texts credited to Tacticus were never referenced by other Christian scholars untill the 15th century giving credence to the theory that these too might be faked at a much later date?
DeleteI'm no Roman expert like you are and to be fair it's never been an area of history that I've been particularly interested in or that I've been educated about. I don't know where you are from anon 3:16 but I'll be honest I'm English and received my secondary education in the 90s under a lousy Conservative government and at a school where we just repeated the Tudors and the industrial revolution over and over and later we were allowed (lucky us!) to study the French Revolution and the unification of German and Italy. Ancient history was just something we got to study in the 7th year (grade) I guess just because it was interesting for young kids with pyramids, mummies, Spartans, Greek myths, Roman conquests and the gladiators. My uncle (who is also an athesist) did study this period extensively for his degree at Manchester so maybe I should ask for some pointers to learn more myself! I was always more interested in modern history and for a while studied American history at university before becoming a drop out :(
I will say that I stand firm on my previous statement about Jesus' non-existance and as history is always written by the victors (in this case Christians) I think the historical evidence is more than likely inauthentic. The statements I made before about religion are my views on Christianity and that I find it amusing that Jesus is this figure of compassion and tolerance who supposedly died for our sins and in turn created the monster of modern Christianity. This figure of peace and forgiveness gave way to the intolerant, warmongering, filthy rich and corrupt Roman Catholic church, you have to see the irony here no? You could say the message of Christ was a little "lost in translation" maybe? Anyways thanks for the reply and obviously it's something that I need to read up on before I open my mouth again :)
Intelligent, thoughtful dialog on this blog??? Amazing!!!
DeleteOh yes, there is most certainly a school of thought which states the opposite just as you say, however the general consensus is that the passages are *basically* genuine. The first passage refers to James brother of Jesus the Christ (thought to be wholly genuine) and the second about his execution at the hands of Pilate - this is the one which looks to have been tampered with but it is believed to contain an original reference of some sort to Jesus' execution which was later embellished. Trying to figure out exactly what is going on with later additions is sometimes quite tricky and as you say can go to style, language, comparisons with earlier and later manuscripts of the same text and possible sources for the earlier information as well as the later additions (historians often postulate a missing earlier source/s for certain extant writings based on certain factors). In any case, after having considered the evidence and the arguments made by historians (of which there are many... there is so much literature on the subject of historical Jesus) I do believe he existed as does the field in general. I am always open to contradictory evidence however and that is why I enjoy research and academia so much - everything is always evolving with new evidence and new theories and as a professional in the field, one must always be open to the fact that the theories you hold true may one day be proven incorrect and I see this as a very good, not a bad thing; it advances understanding of the field at large. That's why I really can't understand why certain prominent people in the BF field are so set on having the creature be proven to be one sort of thing rather than another to validate personal egos etc - that shouldn't be the issue at all but rather finding out as much about it as we can.
DeleteAnd yes, I certainly do take your point on what religion has become. I do not believe in the Roman Catholic Church. I vehemently oppose it and see it as something *very* distinct from my personal belief in God precisely because of the corruption and evil you speak of and its absolute disregard for the well being of its own flock and the core message of love, tolerance, peace and forgiveness it is supposed to be living, demonstrating and spreading. I don't think the message of Christ has been lost in translation. I think it is and has always been used in an institutional sense as a tool for power and control over the faithful because the power of the message has been understood a little too well.
Anyway, that's a bit heavy, but I appreciate the interesting dialog and your willingness to engage in a rational discussion :)
Thanks! I think your views on Bigfoot are pretty spot on! I don't understand the whole homind vs ape game either I just hope that the creature is found. It would be nice to get a live specimen to go with DNA study though....
DeleteStand back punks, locked and loaded.
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as bigfoot.
ReplyDeleteLooney Toon actually refers himself as a Loony Toon! Ha ha ha ha - Dork!
DeleteLmao. Nice to see the losers have grown in numbers. Fuckin idiots. Get a job, go to school. Do something!
ReplyDeleteFuckin bums
You sure seem to hate fuckin bums. I actually love fuckin bums. :D
DeleteIf bums had any brains they wouldn't be bums.
DeleteLet's look at this way. If the studies had been able to keep leaks stopped up, RL didn't throw out what ever he could scrape up, the hoaxers grew bored and stopped and no Finding Bigfoot was aired, what would we have? A boring dull time waiting for the next sighting to pop up on the BFRO site so we could read it and try to figure out if real or which hoaxer came out of retirement.
ReplyDeleteAll of the ranting, raving, leaking, weeping, and whining does nothing except let us express our emotions. Has a single person's mind been changed by any evidence turned out of the blogosphere? Doubtful, very doubtful.
Those whose believe, believe and we will go to the grave that way. Those that don't believe, don't and will also go to the grave that way. Only the fence sitters will be swayed and get their hemorrhoids chaffed waiting on a body.
If you really get your feeling hurt by these blog wars, there is a very simple cure. Turn off the damb computer and pick up a book. Watch TV, read a newspaper. Get a life. Let those who don't mind wadi.g through the crap do so. We are the only ones who will smell bad. Let the trolls, troll. Let the skeptics debate with the moderate believers. Let the rabid believers rant and preach. And let the fence sitters watch and sway.
If you can't handle that, you should not enter the three rings of the blogosphere circus.
Can't argue with that Big Jim. The one common thread amongst all is curiosity about the bigfoot and its frustratingly stealthy behavior. Another month or two and we'll be in phase two, actually learning something about them. I don't understand the energy people have for arguing about it. Something to do I guess until more info becomes available.
DeleteI hope it is that soon. I am still holding to my December 21st release prediction. The study would forever change the world as we know it, if true.
DeleteThe energy we have for arguing is human nature I think. One person thinks they are a better wrestler than another. So they wrestle to see who is better. The loser than demands a rematch.
It is endless competition that humans love. Look how many games we have and play. Those that get tired or crippled in the physical games, or those who can't compete in the physical games, take up debate.
To win with words and brains instead of muscles and strength. Same game, different method of play.
Then add in the idiots who attack those that can't defend themselves, like jocks picking on nerds and vice versa. They have to win somehow, so they fight out of weight class so to speak.
I'd say that arguing on a blog like this is a good leveller, I mean you could be a Catholic priest, a McDonalds burger flipper or be a professor of English literature and you're kinda all the same on here. I could be just about anyone of any social standing from anywhere in the world arguing Bigfoot with someone else from where ever who might be of a completely different social standing. Everyone on here can stick up for themselves there are no real weight classes and people on here are never dull for sure! I think we all have our belief systems whether it's Bigfoot and religion or atheism and UFOs or whatever and we always think we know best and like to test others views especially if it contradicts something we hold dear.
DeleteJohn Lennon called that "bag ism": total communication with no ability to judge a person by their appearance or background.....
DeleteWe must be getting close to the papers release now because the disinformation campaigns are heating up.
ReplyDeleteHope you fools have started on your lengthy apology speeches. Once again we see nothing but rumours and assumptions and nothing of substance. I agree Ketchum should have said nothing - badly handled the publicity, but you idiots have no knowledge of the detailed facts of the research or who and where it was done so you are firing blank bullets. What sort of crazies do that and reckon they are credible. Your illustrious leader is a clowning nut case and you are trying to take the high ground here? Do you realise how stupid and pathetic you all look. Looks like a case of not letting the facts get in the way of a good story. Pitiful. It is also looking like a case of sour grapes from this side of the fence.
I know and I wholeheartedly agree, pitiful indeed to think these are grown men probably with wives and kids writing this anti Ketchum trash maybe even getting payed doing it by her opposition those in the mainstream science government and religious block.
DeleteYeah damn idiots not believing in Ketchum because of stupid reason and logic!!! You are all the pawns of the Feds and the churches because if wonderful Melba's research gets published religion and science will be destroyed and your heads will pop like exploding melons at the power of Ketchum! I know all this despite never seeing her study because she once treated my sick cat and seemed like a nice lady you fuckers!!!!!! Beware Ketchum for she will bring the power of Sasquatch down on you all you haters!!!!!
DeleteCan someone please please explain to me how this is gonna crumble religion and science please because as far as I'm concerned I believe in ketchums study but if it does come out true my beliefs in god won't change my science won't change so can someone please tell me about all this change
DeleteI don't get it either I think it's merely a case of people making a big deal out of it because Bigfoot is a big deal to them. To the mainstream world it means little but an amusing news story or "who would have believed it" work place water cooler talk and maybe a Leno monologue. Think these people give it importance because they've maybe been ridiculed for believing in it so to get the last laugh is something to feel good about. Unfortunately religion keeps surviving discoveries whether it's evolution, dinosaurs or Higgs Bosoum it keeps going and going. As for science it's used to adapting and it's something new to study so they'll be like a pig in shit :)
DeleteWell if it doesn't threaten religion then how come the government never told us about it before and obviously must've thought so before, because surely they must've known. And if it's really as you say, that it won't matter that much, then it shouldn't be a problem anymore should it.
DeleteWhy does everyone talk about the government like it's a big building walking around. The government is people just like you and I and they have no clue he exists either granted some branches know some things but it's not common knowledge for the whole entity. And if any branch does know it's just a secret to them not with held because it will destroy society or anything else maybe just so they aren't hunted to extinction
DeleteExactly. The government knows as much as we do because they are us.
DeleteTater Hole
ReplyDeleteSurely you mean Tazer Hole.
DeletePoop Jar
ReplyDeleteMoron^
DeleteModerate.
DeleteFirst
ReplyDeleteTo have sex with a horse^
DeleteTater Poop
ReplyDeleteMoron^
DeletePoop in a tater jar
ReplyDeleteMoron^
DeletePoop
ReplyDeleteMoron^
DeleteRarer jar
ReplyDeleteMoron^
Deleteidiots....
DeleteNone of this matters really. Melba's 15 minutes can't be stretched out forever. If her 'study' ever is published it'll bleed over into the mainstream media for a day or two in the "Weird News" sections, and it will be over. Then she'll be relegated to Coast-To-Coast AM where she belongs, maybe a minor book deal, and that's it. No public acceptance, no accolades, just humorous eccentricity.
ReplyDeleteThere'll be plenty of conspiracy theories by the Ketchum Cultists no doubt, but no vindication. Then finally the rest of us will get back to contemplating biology, zoology, anthropology and psychology, honestly and rationally as we've always done, to solve this persistent mystery.
Wow! You can see the future, eh? How the bell do you, or anyone else know what will happen with this study?
DeleteThought so...
Because she's an idiot. Like you.
DeleteSomeone please explain the science and religion crumbling I don't get it ok so they may need to redo history books but they already need to do that for who discovered the Americas first and to change the planets from 9 to 8 so someone tell me
ReplyDeleteShawn needs to make a correction here. I am the author and go by mike akaganglian on Facebook. I post on the team tazer page, I am NOT a member of team tazer however, nor affiliated with this blog beyond this guest post. You goofed there Shawn.
ReplyDeleteThat needed clarification, mike aka ganglion, as in Ganglian. Just me and my 2 bit opinion. This has nothing to do with team tazer at all. Shawn asked to repost this and I said OK.
I wish there was an option next to the "Publish" and "Preview" buttons that said "Time Machine" so I could go back and re-claim all the brain cells I've wasted reading the untold hundreds of comments on this blog. If the internet is an reflection of the current state of human consciousness we are all doomed!!!
ReplyDeleteYes we are but it'll be ok. And I don't know about you but I actually feel a bit stupider. But hey at least I learned what a tater hole is. And this is not a reflection on the current state what so ever just a small piece in a corner somewhere before I came here I didn't know any of these people even existed in the world. So I think we still have hope yet.
DeleteSave your remaining brain cells by not reading or commenting on it any more.
Delete