Pro-Kill vs No-Kill From An Okie's Perspective
Editor’s Note: Michael Higgins is 28 years old, Texas born, Oklahoman. He is an advocate and a firm believer of the Squatch. He has witnessed one of the big guys or gals near a powerline trail in Honobia, Oklahoma. Michael is a realism artist interested in doing sasquatch sketches for eyewitnesses. You can visit his blog at okiesquatchartist.blogspot.com.When I was younger I killed some animals because I thought it was funny. I don't know why. I'm no risk for becoming a serial killer or anything of that sort, nor was I at the time. I just thought that blowing the hell out of an armadillo was funny. I was ignorant. What right did I have to kill a living creature like that? None. Being human doesn't mean I'm allowed to kill whatever I want. Being a logical human means I shouldn't want to kill. Animals were put on this earth for sustenance, and to be admired as God's creations.
I was pro-kill at one time. Before I did a lot of research on the subject of Sasquatch. I was ignorant then too. However, I am not now. I do not believe that fame and fortune will come with the body of a bigfoot. I do not want my name associated with killing such a treasure of the forest.
I understand that we humans are animals. However, we do not view each other as animals. As of right now we do not know if sasquatch will be viewed as an animal or as a human relative. Whats the difference on how they will be viewed anyway? There is no justification for just blatantly killing an animal. There is no justification for killing a sasquatch. The only argument that comes close to any sort of justification is that a specimen needs to be provided to validate and provide protection for the species. Or doest it? I know that providing protection to species that has not been validated is not how the government works. That, however, should change and here's why:
1. A hoaxer will be killed at some point. There are areas in the United states that almost completely shut down for hunting, including my hometown of Broken Bow, Ok. People here save their vacation time for deer season. Some folks have more guns than they could count off the top of their heads. Some people have no trespassing signs up and they mean it. All it is going to take is a dumb ass kid in a monkey suit to set off someone by trespassing. Not only that, there are people who would love to nab a bigfoot for the supposed "fame and fortune."
2. Jump back in time a little bit. Lets say that you are a man that lives way out in the woods, away from civilization. You have a wife and two kids that you provide for. You hunt, you gather. You protect your family. One day someone you don't know comes along and kills you while you are out finding food. Your family is left without a provider. Your wife cannot provide in the manner that you once did. Your children slowly wilt away from starvation, all because someone killed you. Apply this to a sasquatch family.
3. The Revenge Factor. Lets say you are on a mission to kill a sasquatch. You've been staking out a certain squatchy area and low and behold, there is your quarry, a juvenile squatch. The young sasquatch does not happen to notice you. You take aim through your expensive, high powered scope. You shoot the young squatch and drop him. All of a sudden the woods come alive. You have just killed a sasquatch that you were scoping out. Little did you know that you were being scoped out and now the real masters of the forest are pissed. You, sir or ma'am, are about to get your ass kicked. Or killed. Enjoy your thought of fame and fortune for that brief second.
4. Respect Native American beliefs. I mean, we were here first. We were relocated, executed, this that and the other, blah blah that's all in the past. Being Choctaw, I cannot speak for my tribe alone. The Choctaws have prospered. However, many tribes in North America have little more than their beliefs left to hold on to. Nearly every tribe in America has some sort of Sasquatch folklore. Lots of Natives believe that these big guys and gals mean no harm and try to stay out of our way.
5. Will fame and fortune REALLY come from killing a sasquatch? Sure there are offers out there. $50,000 for a steak. $10,000 for a specimen. This is petty cash for killing a cryptid. Think about this when you are out in the woods. Is that money worth the POSSIBLE ass beating you could receive from these guys if you kill one of their own? How will you get to spend all that measly $10,000 if your face is ripped off and you are shredded limb from limb? And should these guys and gals prove to be human ancestors that have eluded time and extinction, do you really want to be known as the person who killed one? A HUMAN ancestor?
6. Lets go back to revenge...Americans are the masters of revenge. A sasquatch is killed by a hunter who is then killed by another sasquatch or a bunch of sasquai. What is going to happen? What happened when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor? We didn't go politely explain to them that what they did was wrong. We dropped two hell-bombs on Japan and showed them what resolve really is. What happened when Hitler declared war on the U.S.? We declared war on him and went and shoved the Nazis' poop in. What happened when America was attacked by terrorists? We went and blew the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our resolve has lasted more than ten years and we got him! One confirmed, dead human being, killed by the hands of a squatch, will be followed by human retaliation.
7. What if your death by the hands of a sasquatch goes unconfirmed? Your family never sees you again. You just up and disappear. Most likely you become sasquatch poop. Or animal poop. You won't get to choose. You become an example of why animal carcasses are rarely found. See, once you are ripped apart or bludgeoned to death by that large, bipedal hominid, the skeletal structure of your carcass will be torn to shreds, most likely by scavengers, your meaty portions consumed, and your bones are scattered, most likely in a forested area where the acidity of the compost on the forest floor will decompose your remaining bones, or where they will be consumed by various rodents. Again, you won't get to choose. Did I mention your family never sees you again?
I am only one person. I am a young man, married with a step-daughter, and I finally became a real daddy last week (5/11/12). Its the greatest thing in the world. I want to take my daughters searching for sasquatch. I want to teach them to respect not only humans, but animals as well. I could not fathom losing any of my children or my wife, just to satisfy someones curiosity. I also could not fathom the thought of killing a family member of someone else just to satisfy my own curiosity. The evidence of sasquatch is overwhelming. Yes, some of it is inconclusive. However, some of it cannot be ignored. I know we are living with sasquatch. I have seen. I would hate to see one killed. I would also hate to see someone killed by one. Think about it before you pull the trigger.
Excellent article Okie..always enjoy your posts and look forward seeing more of your articles in the future. Congratulations to you and your wife on the birth of your daughter. Best Wishes!
ReplyDelete+1 Couldn't say it better
DeleteI loved your article and perspective, but if I saw one I would kill it. Look this has gone on for years with zero evidence equalling zero legit research and zero legit protection...as if they need our protection anyway.
DeleteOne documented specimen amounts to verifying what thousands of humans and many scientists have tried to tell us, and one animal is worth taking just to prove existence, obtain legal constraints for harm, taxonomoy, and of course more importantly to verify life-long work of guys like Krantz, Patterson, Gimlin. et al to their families and the public.
One animal is worth far less than what its premature death, however unpleasant, could to for all these human lives. We might even be able to help them help themselves to repopulate, better health, etc. Someone has to kill it, someday. None of this Smeja shit either.
Anon above good pro-kill points although I disagree. a good DNA paper and some samples from a grave or hair will prove it. no need to murder this rare creature.
DeleteGreat post Okie. I totally agree with you. Good to see you around again. And congratulations on the new baby.
DeleteEven an ignoramus like KON wouldn't actually do it, this species evidently isn't nor could it be a wild animal so it's a given there'll be no killing. No way that apes could roam freely and never be detected, thoughts just don't get any more illogical than that stand. They're primal forest and mountain people with families probably, very different and unique species of nearhumans meaning any sensible person will not shoot unless you're a deranged murderous person to begin with.
DeleteOkie, you have put these same arguments into the comments over and over. Nothing new here. But, if you can see that the only good argument for taking a specimen is to provide protection, why do you in the same paragraph refer to a pro-specimen stance as ignorant. I read the rest of your article and while I completely disagree that protection can be achieved without a body, I do not refer to you or those that think like you as ignorant. The murderer label is old and tired, we are only trying to be logical. There are plenty of trolls out there who like to take up the trash talking on this subject and act all big like they want to wipe out the species. But there are also many of us who look at this from a completely scientific standpoint and see the necessity of a male and female specimen to first confirm and then protect the species. If we take into account the number of sightings as well as how far they are spread across North America the evidence seems to suggest that collecting these token specimen would not negatively impact the population, but would provide some protection to come. I respect most of your comments Okie, but to broadly refer to a group as ignorant? John
DeleteI said what i said from standpoint of having a MS in Zoology and BS in Biochemistry as well as avid hunter and outdoorsman. And yes, if i am hunting in SC and see Bigfoot in my sights I will pull the trigger, unless it is obviously just a homeless American Indian or hobo.
DeleteKill one, find its remains, or it isnt legally real. the end.
Hey John
DeleteI apologize, I don't think that specimen seekers are ignorant. The belief that a specimen will provide protection of the species is not unfounded. I don't agree with it, but I didn't say it was not true. I was referring to people who want to go out and nab a squatch for the fame and fortune aspects of it. They are out there, hell I was one of them. I probably could have clarified that a little better. Hey, I just started blogging and learning how to do persuasive and expository writing. All I can do is work on it a little more! But no, I did not mean everybody was ignorant-sorry about that.
Wow, clearly KON is quite insane it seems. Shouldn't be allowed to carry arms then, if he can't tell the difference between an ape and a human species. He will hopefully not shoot once he sees it's no ape, end of story right there. If he still shoots it could be the last we've ever heard from KON.
DeleteWhat good would two specimens of male and female even do, these beings are reported to be very different in appearances just like we are as individuals pretty much. There may even be more than one single Sasquatch species out there, so the two dead ones may not even belong to the same race. DNA can actually tell you much the same a body can, as it essentially is one. So once that's prove real we know they're there then, that means video's next on the agenda for study, bodies will come along eventually when something exists.
DeleteAppreciated. John
DeleteMike if you think $50,000 is what a body is worth your really naive let's talk 10,000,000.00 and now we might be in the right ballpark. If the No-Kill want to protect Sasquatch beg your Masters to let you get some closeup HD video of them and possibly get some movement to protect these creatures. Ifnot your leaving the door wide open for a mass assault on Sasquatch across the country.
ReplyDeleteWho would pay $10M? I have often wondered about the skeptics and the "do it for the money" types that believe there is "big money" in BF.
DeleteI just don't see it. $10K? $50K even $100K isn't all that much money.
Sorry BIA, I gotta go with Anon 235. I would go partners with an entertainment lawyer; someone like that who would know how to get maximum revenue from the media world. 10 mil might not be far off. The only major production cost for a televised special would be the body in your possession.
DeleteI would have a tough time killing something so evolved, but its so easy to rationalize it: what the dough could do for my family etc.
Tony
What you end up with depends on the percentage negotiated with your agent Mr Biscardi. And the circumstances -- Lay a trap for it? Did you shoot it in the back? In self-defense? Self-defense will get you a $20,000 appearance on the Today Show, trapping it would not.
DeleteIt's a life made in blood and misery of possibly another human race. Somehow we've been there and done that, remember slavery for one thing. American history is bathed in blood and assholes still want to kill what they don't understand, it's in many ways the most backwards country in the world and what makes that so dangerously is the same losers have technology and weaponry at their disposal. If you took all that hardware away it'd still be the 19th century mentally, that's what makes the situation so sad. I have no doubt this species is either all human or more human anyway than animal/ape, so harming just one to satisfy morbid curiosity is ethically not right. And Okie's right about the mess you'd be in. Smeja's reluctant to return to the site alone, I think he was very lucky to make it home safely. Others won't be as fortunate if you piss off something eight feet tall or more that's a sledgehammer coming down, stress will make you lose your perspective and grip on the situation making you an easy target.
DeleteMoral complexity definitely drives down the price. But in an entertainment world where FB brings in a few million viewers( and nobody watches it thinking a bigfoot will actually be found) a spectacular non-human animal ape would be worth serious cash. Thats my opinion. For myself, I would find it hard to shoot a dolphin for money. Good one about Biscardi btw. thanks anons.
DeleteActually, I feel that sasquai are priceless and treasures of the forest which is one reason I wouldn't kill one. I got the $50,000 for a steak reference from an article posted on this site.
DeleteAnon @7:09, Do you really think the media is going to shell out major money after the Georgia fiasco? You may get some money but I don't think it would be anywhere near $10M and you would have to prove its a real sasquatch before they gave you anything.
DeleteYeah..once bitten twice shy. I remember that story got traction because a cop was making the claim, so it would be a challenge to draw them in again even if a credible person was involved.
DeleteTony
@ BackInAction 6:23AM - “Who would pay $10M?”
Delete$10M is the going rate. It seems to be across the board. There are of course those offering substantially bigger sums but they do not come from reliable or “known” sources.
If it exists then they must have a decent sized breading population to have been able to survive millennia alongside humans. So we should kill one because if we don't we will still be sat here in 50 years discussing the same stuff over and over and getting nowhere with no proof. DNA is a waste of time, recording howls is a waste of time, footprint casts are a waste of time. You will probably cry no they aren't a waste of time but if u think that you are simply deluded. They are a waste of time because they have not even in the slightest helped us to understand the creature or help us to get close (hint: we have no evidence).
ReplyDeleteKill the ape once and for all, and all those people crying not to they are simply not interested in proving Bigfoot and they have their own agendas (hoaxes money etc)
So, if there are many of them, it's ok to kill one? That's what you're saying?
DeleteThere aren't many of THAT ONE, just single one that one you see in the wood, so do not kill him.
To kill a being because somebody said he saw it and it exists, and the others said it does not, so KILL THE BEING to settle it?
Please read the article above many times, its written by a human being. It might help you find one within yourself. Just dont shoot it on sight, please.
Why not ? Everything dies you know . That's a fact. If you don't want a Bigfoot killed then you aren't interested in proving the species, its that simple.
Delete1.
Delete"If you don't want a Bigfoot killed then you aren't interested in proving the species".
Hm. Think it over. Something's wrong there.
2.
Step on the edge on top of a skyscraper, and say to yourself: everything dies.
"Why not?"
Why dont you want to prove the species?
DeleteWho's time are we wasting, exactly? Are you wasting time doing research? What does a corpse really teach us about them? If one were shot, I'd be anxiously awaiting the results of measuring the weights and volumes of its parts... but since I imagine that most of the readers here aren't interested in that level of science, they won't learn anything from a dead Sasquatch that they can't learn from a clear picture or a bonafide scientific study. If the hope is that a body will spark intruigue in the scientific study, DNA can do that. Photos/video can do that. And if you're close enough to shoot one, you can film it, or at least track it's path and look for interesting samples. Give science what it needs, but it doesn't have to be a corpse.
DeleteDavid from the PAC/NW
Okay, let's see how this could work out should you kill a Sasquatch while hunting deep in the woods: 1 hunter, 6 feet or so in height, say 160-200 pounds.
DeleteDead: one Bigfoot, 600-800 pounds, 8-10 tall. Hmmm I foresee problems even should the hunter survive being attacked by angry family members.
How could **ONE** man, even 3 men, carry a body of that size out of the forests?
Pretty simple. I hunt Elk and they can top 800lbs. You have atvs and Pack horses etc. A smart hunter makes a plan.
DeleteWon't work, broski. You seriously think these guys, smart enough as they are to elude us for centuries, would stand idly by and watch you carry out or dismember a family member? That's pretty naive of you. If they're just a tiny bit human it's the same smartness they've used to avoid us this far, the same cunning will be used to stop you. Bingo, one more missing person or persons. It's really common sense, if these guys exist this situation has probably happened many times already and the instances where the shooters made it home with no body means they left it there in panic. This thing is no ape, to have wild apes in America would've meant authoritive warnings to the public we've seen only the exact opposite of that. That means if this species is real they're considered a human type by forest authorities otherwise their actions make no sense, the mistaken identity excuse will only work so long.
DeleteNo one ever killed one and no one ever will because they do not exist. all other arguments here are pointless.
DeleteI generally agree with David. What the supreme says about pornography applies to genuine, high-def wildlife footage: you will know it when you see it. Clear footage and photos will get the attention of anthropologists. You don't have to plop a corpse on their desk.
DeleteTony
He lost me at "God's creations"
ReplyDeleteAnd there lies the problem with you. Good luck with that!
DeleteMark, I totally agree. Everyone wants to feel warm and fuzzy about the big guy, meanwhile doing nothing truly meaningful in this field. Their websites and pretend time in the forest would be ruined if someone did the truly hard work that would be involved in hunting a Sasquatch. These are the same guys who find prints and then when they hear something nearby turn and run back to camp. They are out there to get their adrenaline up and nothing more. None of them really want to achieve what the espouse to, protection.
DeleteOnly one person, with an opionion based on experience and some careful consideration. Thanks Shawn for this Blog and the opportunity for single voices to be heard. And thanks "Okie" for sharing this.
ReplyDeleteVery nice article Michael. I was wondering why we have missed you here for a few days, now I know. Busy with your blogspot and most important, the wonderful joy of your first newborn. Congratulations to you and your wife on this, I hope it is healthy and you and yours prosper. You already know i quite agree with what you have written and keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteChuck
Listen Folks as much as you don't want to hear this and find it laughable you will soon come to understand that these creatures are not like you and me or any other creature on this planet we call earth. This is an ALIEN SPECIES brought here by who knows who but if you just look at the facts surrounding there life here you have to see that these creatures are way different then us. Try to take their picture, try to catch one, lol These are creatures with abilities we can't imagine.
ReplyDeleteEven if it is alien it makes it no less dangerous or murderous to kill one for no reason. They are obviously more intelligent than most humans or we would have out smarted them long ago.
DeleteAfter all life on other planets is an extremely likely occurrence as most serious scientists and astronomers today agree on. There's even the good possibility of space bending/wormholes which could explain how spaceships could get here easily. So once we seem to agree alien lifeforms do exist elsewhere more or less advanced, it's at least a possibility not to rule out about Sasquatches.
DeleteOK Melba! Delusional beyond comprehension.
DeleteYou deny the current scientific stand on the unexplored universe? I'd say your reality denial's in full troll swing more like it.
DeleteWell written Okie, I hope many people read the post and get a little more educated. We don't have to shoot one, there is a better way. Gain their trust.
ReplyDeleteWell written article. I personally believe that a type specimin will eventually be needed, BUT I also firmly believe that it should not be obtained by amateur researchers out to bag one. My personal goal is for us amateurs to compound enough evidence so that the science community cannot ostricize and ignore the subject any longer, so that someone will back a real team of primatologists/anthropologists to find, study, and if need be obtain a type specimin.
ReplyDeleteWow all you anti kill guys guys are deluded. You think this is going to be proven without a body. Dream more please.
ReplyDeleteIt's called DNA, sonny. No one's saying there won't be body found one day, the biengs exist so it's only realistic to assume, but it shouldn't come about by killing. Who kills great apes to prove them anymore? Nobody. That's not how science works anymore and here's a species clearly even more humanlike, you do the math why murder is wrong. New primates discovered in Africa, be it monkeys aren't killed they're observed.
DeleteProblem with your argument anon 8:16 is that clear pictures and video can be taken of these new animals around the world. Yet there is no 100% viable proof of BF in video, DNA, or fossil. Also, many scientist began their search for a new species AFTER seeing dead specimens killed for meat or sport.
DeleteYou're talking old world views Logan, it's not how we deal with new primates anymore.
DeleteI hate to tell you but most of the places these primates are would fall into the category of "old world". Many specimens were originally first seen from hunters or researchers as "bush meat" and intrigued people to go out and find these animals. We today set out cameras with video/picture capability. DNA can be tainted and degraded. Unless we can start getting clear UNDISPUTABLE video of BF we need a specimen so we can perform numerous DNA studies on. Also, disection of the creature would lead to knowledge about food resources, sight/hearing capabilities, etc. All of these would help us better find more.
DeleteWhat the hell are you talking about, experimenting on them, wtf. LOL Just let the DNA results speak first, okay. US history's bloody enough as it is no need to taint it further, this is the 21st century you know.
DeleteThey are not lab rats Logan.
DeleteI'm saying that we need a body. We don't need to experiment on live subject but the disection of a body would lead to revelations about the species. Do none of y'all have any idea of how science works? It is astonishing how much the "believers" lack fundamental knowledge of how science works.
DeleteOf course we know that doctors know what they know about anatomy via disection, but it'll have to wait until we come by a dead body in a natural way.
DeleteBad or good luck depending on how you look at it, has meant it hasn't happened yet but is bound to. Or maybe it already has and the powers that be have the papers on it all written, I think that's not impossible.
After all there are rumors of past Bigfoot activity around military bases caught on surveillance camera, so who knows.
Let DNA talk first, see what that says and once we've established there is a new species of bipedal primate out there it's on to video study next.
Mike- thanks for your take on the kill-no kill issue. Those that have seen the Sasquatch relize exactly what they are seeing and their lives and hearts are changed.
ReplyDeleteThe circle of thought is verification, protection and education. We do not need a body for verification. Science classifies new species on the bases of DNA alone every year. Protection will come when verification comes; it doesn't need to be rushed along at the expense of killing the Sasquatch, agian not nessesary. Education will come as it has started, in the hearts and minds of those who choose to validate the Sasquatch; you will not learn as much from a dead Sasquatch as one that is alive. Agian thanks for sharing Mike. ptangier
You sound as if you come from ketchums secret protection site. Sounding very cultish w/your "circle of thought"
DeleteAnd you sound troll-like.
DeleteMike, good article and excellent parallel to your family because that is exactly what it is...a sasquatch family since these are people. The ignorant newbies (or inexperienced people) and folks that want grant money will always hold to the ape stance because of greed. However, those of us who have that up close experience with these people know and tell the truth...that they are people. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Anyway, good job.
ReplyDeleteAlex, well said and very true. This romantic ape theory is kidding ourselves.
DeleteAlex they are not people. Please get out of BF research now. If they were us they would look like us. They are not us and they are not 100% ape. They are what they are!
DeleteOf course they're not us or like us except for the typical primate shape, but they're still some (new) human species more than ape undoubtedly. Yeah we're apes too and all that nitpicking jive, but they're not the great ape ape/animal many think they are. Whether you like the idea now or not they're probably a primal people.
DeleteFez (Damian) muster up some balls and put your name down when you address me. Believe me that I know a hell of a lot more than anon Fez or most of the other pussies that post anonymously. If you know so much put your name down so that we know who you are and how to qualify your statement. Fez & Teamtazer = Pointless comments based on no experience. So put your name down or don't bother commenting. As it stands, your comment means nothing based on no experience. Mine is based on 1000's of hours out there with them. Let me know when you get there and we'll talk.
DeleteHey loony bird, that's not Damian Bravo. He posts under his name. And where's your evidence? If you've spent "1000's of hours out there with them" then you should have tons of proof. Clear pictures, hours of good video. Oh that's right, they don't like cameras. I thought you were boycotting this site? Please, do us a favor.
DeleteFirst, congratulations Michael and family on your new addition. Second, I have read the blogs on this site for months. Over the past month or so, I got a little jaded with this site, made fun of a few, etc.
ReplyDeleteI too want to thank you for a great read and just say in my opinion, one of the better blogs I have read.
I'm just gonna answer his questions in order.
ReplyDelete#1 A hoaxer will definitely be killed at some point and I am surprised it has not yet occurred.
#2 What so a single mother can't provide. Moms usually are the sole provider out in the wilderness. Males hit and run.
#3 How many times have you heard reports of multiple Squatches being sighted at the same time. It happens but not very often. It never happens with more than 3 or 4 take out mama and papa and your good.
#4 Native Americans also respect the mighty Buffalo but slaughtered the shit out of them. So did European settlers as they moved west as well.
#5 Fortune will come from killing one. You will be an instant millionaire. Fame probably not. As far as them tearing you limb from limb see answer #3
#6 You have way to many groups and law enforcement out there now to let a slaughter like this happen in the states. Bears and Buffalo killed people all the time when I was in Yellowstone. I worked search and rescue when a guy in Yellowstone had half his face ripped off (his 2nd time being attacked) and was his fault. They simply just relocated the bear.
#7 Once again see answer 3.
I do not support a unprovoked kill in anyway shape or form. These things if real deserve to be admired not hunted but if I was being charged by one its fair game.
Congrats on becoming a dad!
Big Bro: I thought officials kill bears that attack people. Do you know the story of Tim Treadwell? He was a bear fanatic that liked to hang with them and got ripped to shreds. The authorities killed a few grizzlies because of it.
DeleteTony
Depends man. This story is on YouTube and I have a 5 second cameo. If a bear is provoked like this incident than its not deemed the animals fault. This guy was laying in a trail photographing the bears off in the distance when a Sow and 2 cubs strolled by he jumped up the cubs ran and the rest is history.
DeleteIf you watch Casey Anderson's show with Brutus his Bear on NatGeo the guy was on an episode.
Not to make lite of the story about Treadwell but he was showing corridor in Island Park which was 5 minutes away the summer before he died and a guy stood up and said "sir you are not a bear and are teaching people its ok to do what you do and you will end up dead." Some people just don't get the hint.
DeleteWow. 1 or 2 swipes and bye-bye eyes. People are nuts for messing with those things. Thanks Bro.
DeleteTony
To Bigfoots broski. When you worked in Yellowstone did you know the most famous and legendary ranger of all that being Bob Action Jackson? I have heard him interviewed a couple of times and he personally had several encounters with Bigfoots in his 30 year career.
ReplyDeleteChuck
Only heard of him Chuck.... I know he is a bison rancher someplace now. I honestly never had the opportunity to meet him. I have heard of one ranger having a sighting where I lived near the west entrance. He said something was crashing through the lodge poles on 2 feet so it wasn't s bear. I believe most of the sightings happen in the NE of the park in the Beartooth pass area near cook city.
DeleteIt took me a few years of living there to see a Grizzly so I can see how easily a Squatch could hide there.
While I am No-Kill, the example of Japan being nuked is not a good one as it is based on a lame understand of history. Read about the "Rape of Nanking" to start with, but the dropping of those two bombs stopped short a war that would have taken many times more lives than were lost.
ReplyDeleteI am No Kill because it will not end with one specimen and a dead "voucher specimen" is useless other than as a fossil. It does not tell you if any are left. It does not tell you about the function of organs. It does not tell you about behaviors and habitat.
Regarding becoming an "instant millionaire," plan on having your specimen taken from you as all wildlife belongs to the States. You will be lucky if your trial for committing the crime of poaching does not result in you losing all your income and wealth for about a decade.
Of course, that is assuming this does not test out to be a human with rare mutations - in which case you and all those who are with you will have conspired to commit criminally negligent homicide.
John depends on which state #1.
DeleteDefinition of poaching. Illegally hunt or catch (game or fish) on land that is not one's own or is under official protection
Bigfoot is not under protection or requires a license to hunt.
Also you don't need a body at all to cash in if your kill is confirmed. Book deals, gun companies want to say so bad ass it will kill a Bigfoot, same for ammo, camo clothing will say so good a Bigfoot won't see you. They will pay huge for the person to say these things.
Broski, species are studied and populations are determined through rigorous study before being classified as protected, regulated or unregulated. Some state's laws are not clear on this topic, but without that info, there can't be any classification. Therefore, I say, a court would likely have to make a ruling in those states, in lieu of a clear stance by F&W, with regard to Sasquatch... so it's ultimately not our decision.
DeleteDavid from the PAC/NW
Right that's why I stated if the guy had a confirmed kill he would still make a ton of money. In no way will a Court charge a man with poaching an animal that was not on a protected list. They man take the body though.
DeleteDamn ignoramus, they aren't animals which is basically why we haven't seen any dead bodies yet. Duh, any person if sensibel enough can and will figure that out. Authorities undoubtedly have been fearful of public reactions in the past, after all here's this new unknown human-something that nobody really knows what is except there it is. How would you present something like that, it has to be done gently which may partly explain the time the DNA study's taking.
DeleteReally dumb ass! You have absolute Scientific proof that these are humans! Say what you want the difference between humans and apes.
DeleteOur brain is more developed. - We have less muscle. - The pelvis and knees are more evolved for vertical posture.
- We have more complex thoughts, and extensive tool use.
- We branched in a different evolutionary direction.
So Bigfoots brain is not as evolved or they would be ruling us and searching for us.
We have less muscle than apes. Well Squatches obviously have more muscle.
We obviously have more complex thoughts just look at what we created while they put sticks together for birthing stations. They throw rocks we create something to throw 50.
Human features do not make them humans. If it did Gorillas would be human. So until you can prove without a shadow of a doubt they are humans they are animals.
Common sense, buddy. I can't debate seriously with a person thinking there's wild apes running loose in the US today, were they no more than a Gorilla we'd have them by now from accidents and such. Gorillas you can find because they're animals, another primate species highly likely human is not easily found. So it goes without saying they must be very intelligent, whatever they are. But if you think they're on the same level as the great apes or monkeys we already know, I say you're fooling yourself probably to justify a kill. You will see soon what they are and regret any killing action.
DeleteSmart guy I have no reason or desire to kill one or justify one being killed. The reason you can't debate me is simple. You cant prove your theory.
DeleteAlso weren't some Gorillas just recorded on camera for the first time just last week? Animals can easily avoid us.
My theory of apes sounds a lot more credible than a 8 ft human who lives in the woods. Ask yourself this humans are attracted to humans but animals shy away from humans. So why would these humans shy away from us.
Your guns maybe? Yeah, that's one good reason to avoid contact. I think they're a hominin of some sorts, they must know very well their culture would die if too close to us.
DeleteI don't have to prove my theory, Dr. Ketchum's study is doing that for me and all of us even you like it or not. Those new Gorillas, hmmm we weren't actually looking for them either so staying off our radar wasn't hard besides they look like most Gorillas.
You honestly think bipedal Gorilla type Giganto apes walk around in America now? I don't. Nor do they sound very Gorilla-like to me when witnesses refer to both humanlike facial features and feet, speech even. Do the math please, it should tell you intelligence is exactly how they've managed to stay hidden maybe even with a little help secretly from us on the side.
Why DO I keep coming to this site? We now have a fake native American arguing the merits of hunting a mythical creature... This blog should be renamed "Bigfootology Fan Fiction" ay this point.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I need to get life, I'm a troll, etc... etc...
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DeleteFake Native American? My granma was full blood Choctaw and my grandpa was half Chickasaw. I have my CDIB and am a member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma. I don't live the life of some Native Americans-as a matter of fact the Choctaws were the first tribe to be civilized, which is why my tribe has prospered so well. Hardly fake man.
DeleteAgain 451, Get a life. We don't know why you come here either. All you do is ridicule and belittle people. If you don't believe anything on this site then you have the choice to leave. We certainly wouldn't miss you.
DeleteIn the words of Ronnie Van Zant while recording their live album in Atlanta, "One More From the Road" in 1976, while introducing the newest member of Lynyrd Skynyrd, Steve Gaines who was from Oklahoma also - Watch out, I'm goona sic an Okie on ya. This led to Gaines' playing the best smokin hot rendition of "T For Texas" that has ever been done.
DeleteWatch out 451 I'm goona sic an Okie on ya, and a Choctaw/Chickasaw one at that.
Chuck
How funny, some troll by the name 451 talks to others about being fake!
DeleteI've never admitted to being something I'm not on this blog. Guess that makes me fake according to 'footer logic :)
DeleteCan't man-up and apologize 451? I usually agree with you, but you're 'fake' comment was pure uneducated and undeserved assholitry.
DeleteApologize... For what, exactly? He claims that he's Choctaw in his blog post, yet in his response to me he admits that only one of his grandparents is Choctaw. He intentionally misrepresented himself to make a point about Native American beliefs.
DeleteClaiming to be a Native American on order to garner clout on a bigfoot blog when in reality it's your grandparent that's Native American seems like a low class move to me.
Lets see...my Grandma was full blood Choctaw. I'm definitely not adopted, and my Certificate Degree of Indian Blood says 3/8 Choctaw on it...meaning I'm Choctaw. I'm claiming to be Native American BECAUSE I AM. So how did I misrepresent myself?
DeleteI agree with Anon 09:59. Get a life pal.
DeleteWe're arguing semantics at this point. In my opinion, claiming to be Native American when the majority (5/8ths) of your ancestry is NOT Native American seems disingenuous to me. I mean, you're literally not even half Native American. But whatever.
DeleteRight back at ya, Chief Lies On Blogs.
DeleteWell the Choctaw Nation recognizes me as a member of the tribe buddy. So I guess they are claiming that I'm Native American as well? Affirmative. Troll.
DeleteFor the record he said his grandmother is full Choctaw and he also said he is Choctaw and Chickasaw, so that means more than one relative is Native American dipshit.
DeleteWhat genius on this poor mans bigfoot blog came up with the term troll to describe people who had opinions different than them. Im guessing it was Fatsino, dyer, or snowpacker. They have all been called troll so much, it probably came as second nature to refer to others as that. And in case they are listening here is a brief recap of why the three of you are called trolls by your family, friends, society, etc. : Your damn ugly, you look and are dirty, and your stupid too boot! Dyer and Fatsino are of course overweight which is also a characteristic of a troll but snowpacker defies this stereotype. He must be a wood troll, vs dyer and fatsino who are cave trolls
DeleteI can't help but laugh at the "woods come alive" thinking after a shooting. We can't get a good photo or video on a game camera but if I go shoot one, 3-10 of this family group (in the same area I have my game camera) will suddenly be there. Your assumptions on this have little to NO basis. People rarely see "families" of these things but you believe they are "always watching". If there are family groups constantly walking around, we would see more of the juveniles. You know how unruly young are. They would be playing in the street, carelessly running in the woods/fields, something. But no. Most if not all sightings come from a single large individual. Yet the brain of a bigfooter likes to make up wild stories supported by no evidence to fit their own beliefs. I hope they are real but the stories and beliefs made up by the "followers" are ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteYour statement is far from what has been described by actual witnesses. Granted usually only one is seen, but many sightings include 2 or more. Many, Many times the witnesses say they knew more were around, either by the feeling they had, or the sounds that were being made around them or from different parts of the forest. I only speculate that the family units or clans stay fairly close together. The father may go hunting by himself, but the mother keeps the young ones close to the vest.
DeleteChuck
Where do they keep them? Where is this lair? And sorry but most people that go in the woods know nothing of the sounds there. If the mother keeps the "close to vest" as you would say, wouldn't they do like many animals and stay hidden/quiet or come running out in defense when danger approached instead of simply making noise revealing their position.
DeleteLook I want to believe (and a close family member has had an unusual encounter in the woods) but most of this is pure speculation and it is made up to promote ones own beliefs about kill vs. no kill.
Well, for one thing Logan they're not anywhere around your game cameras so using that scenario as an example is pretty useless. Even if mere ape animal it's insane to kill, can't condemn it on one hand regarding the African bush and go and kill a bigger bipedal more humanlike primate here. You will not be able to reap the rewards anyway, either the authorities will stop you or these giants themselves will. That's of course very easy to laugh off now, quite another facing the situation out there.
DeleteAnyone that produces a specimen won't be able to reap any reward because people like the ones on this board will cry for them to be executed even though they are the ones who finally proved the actual existence of the animal. Also, I am not condeming the "bush meat" practices of other cultures, I was simply saying many specimens came from those. Researchers saw them there and went looking for them, or found them and used the "bush meat" specimens for DNA or other studies. Also, I still laugh at the "the giants will get you" train of thought...can't find em, can't capture them on any cameras...yet if you do anything to harm them tons will charge out of their hiding places to get you. This is just so laughable.
DeleteNo your train of thought here is skewed, if you shot one that means you saw one so it was there, right? That means others could be around, and while you're busy there messing with the downed body you're beginning to fathom possible reactions coming. The world will hate you, that is if you even succeed in taking any proof with you and the same people siding with you now will say it's fake and then you're suddenly the joke. We know you guys have already decided to denounce scientific findings no matter what, it's all some trolls are waiting for but of course they'll be a small lunatic fringe. There's the scenario the species' human qualities will dawn on you thinking it best left alone. Your plan's a lose-lose situation. There's also the possibility you won't return at all, a little private jungle justice when you're not looking.
DeleteDNA will not prove the species so we need a body. End of discussion.
ReplyDeleteOh no not another DNA clueless troll.
DeleteOh I'm sorry where is the DNA paper that proves Bigfoot?
DeleteOut eventually.
DeleteDNA WILL NOT prove the existence of bigfoot. I guarantee you that skeptics will find a way to dispute/dismiss any DNA "evidence" that may point to the reality of sasquatch.
DeleteThe only thing that they can't (and won't) dispute is a specimen.
Some of these bigfoot skeptics left won't even believe a body, it's all about religion to them and they'll fight this discovery even then. But who cares what a minority lunatic fringe says anyway, one could even be the next US president, they're the official nuts now. I can guarantee you the world will laugh at the bigfoot trolls left, I know exactly what these leftover loonies will say because they never wanted it to be true anyway. They still want to dispute scientific facts so who cares once science's spoken.
DeleteDNA shall set you free, my friend.
Delete@ Okie,
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, congrats on the birth of your first born.
Second, I wish to debate a little in regards to your article. After all, this is a blog and they let any half-wit with a keyboard reply so I’ll do my best. I understand that this is just an opinion and that none of this is proven fact until the creature itself is proven. This is not a personal attack, you sound like a great guy.
I understand you are one of the few who have actually “seen”. Let’s call you a “1%er“. So therefore you believe. No other proof is needed for you. But what about the rest of the “99%er’s”? How about the scientist and experts who claim to have credible undeniable evidence but fail to show it. Well, unfortunately until someone steps forward with this “undeniable evidence“, we’er going to take a body dead or alive. And since dead is easier. I will wager that this is the more popular option. Besides, in order to preserve the species i.e. laws, nature preserves and what not, there must be a body. Period.
Now, “Being Choctaw” as you state, I assume you are referring to 100% Choctaw and you live on a reservation and have a chief elder and family members to which all of whom pass on the legends and stories to you right? Because if you are just a fifth Choctaw and live in the city and graduated a public high school down the street from a mini mall and you never go to the ancestral land and spend time with the elders, then you should not be preaching “I am Indian” so therefore I am in tune with all nature. But if you are, then I apologize.
I am an avid hunter and I too in my younger days often killed without compassion or conscience anything and everything that walked on four legs or flew in the air. Don’t get me wrong, I still hunt during specific seasons and kill without compassion or remorse. But I only kill the animal I am after. I do not kill everything that crosses my path. But when you asked, “should these guys and gals prove to be human ancestors that have eluded time and extinction, do you really want to be known as the person who killed one? A HUMAN ancestor?” You know what, if it proves the existence and nets us the evidence we need, then bigolly you better believe it. At least there will be one for the record books. If I am the fortunate one to nab one of these fellas I do vow it will be my only one. I know I know, it will be my only once because his brother’s uncle will jump out of no where and rip my face off right? I am not in it for the money nor the publicity just the science. Once the proof is given to the public then all this hoopla can be finished.
-To Be Continued
-BK
BK
DeleteNo I am not 100% Choctaw. I'm 3/8 Choctaw/Chickasaw. I'm also a little bit of Irish, English, Scottish, and black Dutch according to my parents. Choctaws do not have reservations in Oklahoma, they oversee 10.5 counties in Southeast Oklahoma. But I will preach I am indian because that is exactly what I am and I'm proud of it. I've been around the woods for most of my life. My town is small, about five square miles in size. The nearest mall is about 1.5 hours away. I never claimed to be at one with nature. In fact, these days its hard for me to get out into the woods (I'm a new dad, taking college courses online, and work full time). When the opportunity arrises however, I take it. I research Sasquatch and am passionate about it because I have seen. The sighting, coupled with the research, has drastically changed my perspective-now I am against killing one.
I hope that should you go out and nab a squatch that you aren't subject to any sort of retaliation. I am not pro-kill, but I understand that there are people out there that no matter what, given the oppurtunity they'll take the chance. That's totally up to the individual person. Will they receive retaliation? Who knows. I was only speculating. It's plausible to believe that they have family units, that they most likely have strong feelings about their family members. Perhaps one day their existence will be undoubtedly proven-without a body.
Thanks for the congrats! Stay safe in the woods man!
BTK's back, oh shit. He sounds like one of those skeptics that always doubted before and now it's turning out to probably be real it sends madmen into a frenzy. Listen man, those of us that already know aren't in favor of bloodshed so you have no support. Most people don't seem to grasp how big something eight+ feet is, making them the tallest beings out there it's the ultimate naivety to think you'll be allowed to bring it out. Not even a piece. Put yourself in their place, you wouldn't want a family member killed by some little shit with a gun. No different for them. And why would you anyway when science didn't call for it, society at large never cared and bigfooters don't want it either when DNA studies can tell much already. Let's see what this species is first, to kill out of morbid curiosty's deplorable and will only win you enemies and zero glory. In fact, it'll most likely bring you bodily harm trying since there's little doubt they're not animals seeing that yourself will send sheer dread through your system. I think no matter how tough you see yourself, once you know it's no animal you'd have to be mad to persist. Mad like Smeja and he seems to regret it, best thing is to await current lab results.
DeleteI have to agree with 451 on this. While i have nothing against you, being 3/8 indian really doesnt qualify you as an indian, at least not in most peoples eyes. I could say im 1/100th indian on my moms side, but does that mean im indian. No it really doesnt. While if your indian doesnt matter at all in terms of this conversation. To keep bringing it up and stressing the heritage really isnt doing any good. The tribe may recognize you as indian, but 3/8 isnt really convincing. If you were 6/8 or more, than yeah your blood is mainly indian. But 3/8, cmon man, again its like saying im 1/100th canadian. If i look far enough back im sure i can find a relative that is in my blood line that was indian, canadian and whatever else i want it to be. Have to go with 451 on this one
DeleteBecause I'm sure Okie's so concerned with wether or not you think he "qualifies" as a Native American. You have no clue how he grew up, maybe he was taught Native American culture, and therefor identifies more with his Native American side. This disrespect towards people who are not full blooded Native Americans is sad. Their ancestors still suffered at the hands of the white man, so show some respect. We owe them more than that.
DeleteNow to my main problem with your opinions, it is your preaching of revenge and strange disappearances. Below are few of your tasty quotes please feel free to go over them and reminis.
ReplyDelete“All of a sudden the woods come alive. You have just killed a sasquatch that you were scoping out. Little did you know that you were being scoped out and now the real masters of the forest are pissed. You, sir or ma'am, are about to get your ass kicked. Or killed.”
”The Woods come alive”, ”Masters of the forest”.
**Come on man what are they some kind of shadow people? Let me guess, this is your ancestral Choctaw nature vibe/belief coming out right?
”POSSIBLE ass beating you could receive”
“your face is ripped off and you are shredded limb from limb?”
“A sasquatch is killed by a hunter who is then killed by another sasquatch or a bunch of sasquai.”
“Your family never sees you again. You just up and disappear. Most likely you become sasquatch poop.”
**WOW, where to begin? Your understanding of the Sasquatch species is completely absurd. Have you done field research? You claim to have actually seen a sasquatch. What was he doing? Did he see you? Did he come toward you or flee or just walk away? Sasquatch are very timid and shy. Elusive so to speak. If you ever spook one, they run. There is no secret hit squad hiding in the bushes ready to jump out at you. But one thing is for sure, if you to come up on one, be ready to shoot because they are fast! By the time you realize what you’re looking at and raise your gun, they are gone. Unless you are in a blind somewhere and one comes walking in and you have time to observe and aim, they are hard to get.
“I could not fathom losing any of my children or my wife, just to satisfy someone’s curiosity.”
**Okay, this is true. No doubt. But until we have it recorded in the books that Sasquatch is a human ancestor and we get rules and regulations prohibiting the abuse/killing/exploitation of the species, it’s game on. They are just like every other creature in this world. ALL species have a main
“hunter gatherer” figure. Be it the female or male, ALL species depend on one or more individuals to survive. Although your story above about a family dying because the hunter gatherer father dies is a good read and pulls at the heart strings of the non-knowing human species. It too is absurd. We are Human and she would have adapted and overcame her circumstance. You don’t think the mother would do everything she could to keep her child healthy? Trust me, backwoods women are tuff. You don’t want to get between one and her children. I am sure it’s the same with a mother Sasquatch. Should you be fortunate to see a mother and her kids. I am sure she too would do what she can to keep her kids safe. Should she feel one was in danger. BUT that’s until you pull the trigger and the sound of the loud gun send them running in every which direction. Their brains cannot comprehend what just happened unitl it’s too late. The commotion of all the abnormal activity sends their senses into over drive and the “flight” mode is activate and they bolt for the hills. After all they are still animals. Sure you killed a baby Squatch. But that’s on your hands. I for one only want a big male. I would never turn on a female and her kids. Not should anyone.
And Mr. Okie, my most all time favorite quote from you.
“…and shoved the Nazis' poop in.”
This definitely sounds like a mature blogger’s opinion to me. One who’s wisdom and experience I would truly follow and consider to be the way of the light!
-BK
Oregon & Washington
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DeleteDon't fall for this BTK dude's tripe, Okie. I read a clear morbid and manic streak in his writing admitting he killed before out of lust. No ordinary hunter would write elongated posts about imaginary creatures, I bet he doesn't have the first clue about anything Bigfoot only stumbled on this subject by chance being a hunter smelling blood if he knew anything he'd not be treating this like some great safari hunt. Show me any sane person who'd gladly shoot apes in our times it's a totally sick idea, especially since that's not even what these fellas are. Their house is the forest, you invade that space with ill intent don't expect a warm welcome. They'll sense it immediately, which is one crucial reason we have no known kills yet another is confusion and regret on the shooter's part.
DeleteI'm seeing this now lol. Just gotta ignore the dude I guess.
DeleteOr maybe way to true fo you?
ReplyDelete"I've even received a little recognition from a member of the BFRO on my blog post."
ReplyDeleteHow's that for arrogance!! LOL
You are in it for the glory!! Not science. Get out!!
Even I don't follow your blog. I follow bigfootevidence.blogspot.com. Your story just happened to be there. Prolly the same case in BK he just stumbled apon it.
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Delete"I tried to add a smidgeon of humor to the material."
ReplyDeleteIt sounds to me like you were trying to make a point or SCARE the would be hunters. With all your revenge talk. Now that somone points out publicly how ridiculius it sounds you make light of it and call it humor?
You sir, have to much free time on your hands. Go out and do some field research and become a real expert.
I do plan on getting out in the field when I can. In fact my wife, a friend, and I are trying to attend a BFRO expedition this fall so that I can get a better insight on how to properly research sasquatch. Unfortunately I do not have a ton of free time on my hands. I had to take this week off of work because my wife had an emergency c section. My newborn is asleep right now which is why I am adding comments. And I never claimed to be an expert. I was speculating and giving an opinion.
DeleteI for one agree, Okie. You're walking into a war zone if the intention is to hurt them so you better believe they'll defend themselves, that's a perfectly understandable reaction. They don't care about our science proving them real or not, to them we're the home invaders and they'll want to survive at any cost. A poor sucker like BTK is just a clumsy casualty that got too close.
DeleteOk, Okie, you have now lost all respect from all of us. You claim that your somewhat of an indian and yet your stupid enough to pay some dirtbag organization like the bfro to take you on a paid outing. ARent indians supposed to know the woods better than a fat tubby moron running around the woods with his cronies claiming every noise and tree is a sasquatch sign. I thought only retarded soccer moms fell for that garbage. But yet you claim to be indian and your gonna pay matt moneymakers retarded fat ass to show you some broken sticks and listen to a few woodpeckers. Damn man, you just lost all of your credibility to the readers. I still cant believe anyone who comes here to read would even think about paying the bfro to do anything other than to take a running leap off of bigfoots butt. Sorry but anyone that stupid is either a retarded hippy white person or the elmer fudd of the indian world
DeleteShut up with that junk, man. People can have NA blood generations back it still makes them part NA. Jeez, the trolls.
DeleteI bet Sasquatch smoked over mesquite would be good eating.
ReplyDeleteSasquabob.
DeleteTroll stew is way better.
DeleteOkie, do the sasquatch in Oklahoma let thier hair grow long and shaggy? Like the hippies out in San Francisco do?
ReplyDeleteMy goodness. This is such a no-brainer that I can't believe that there's any discussion about it.
ReplyDeleteKill one!!! Take one out!!! Take one down!!! Liquidate one!!! If it leaves prints, we can kill it!!! Dispatch one!!! Etc. Etc. Etc.
Someone please get a specimen and end all of the idiocy!!!! Please!!!!!
Here here!
DeleteHere, where? You mean hear hear, right?Shut up damn school fools.
Deleterick dyers gay brother?
ReplyDelete