In defense of Melissa Hovey
Editor's Note: This is a guest post by Chad W., a believer in the unknown.
I am a glass half full kind of person and a romantic when it comes to bigfoot. Wouldn’t it be cool that the photos just like hers turned out to be real? It seems the rest of the “community” are all a bunch of glass is half empty kind of people. Like I said in my article that was posted in defense of Todd Standing, it seems the “community” is never happy. If it’s a not clear it’s got to be a blobsquatch, a hoax or mistaken identity, if it is clear then it’s got to be a hoax. Everyone is too caught up on the idea that every video and photo has got to be hoax. It seems that everyone that claims to have seen a BF is believed. But if that witness happened to video record it or photograph it, then they committed a hoax and should go to jail over it.
The other major point I am trying to get across is when the rumor got out that she had this photo everyone was screaming foul because she was holding on to it. Then when she released it everyone was screaming foul that it’s a hoax. Maybe she was holding back on it because it could have been claimed to be a hoax and receive bad reception. The “community” is behaving so badly over this that when the next person that gets a high quality photo or video they will hold on it because they will believe they WILL BE blasted by the “community” for posting another hoax. Let’s all show some grace and thank her for posting this photo, whether we disagree with its validity or not. Thank you Melissa, I for one really appreciate that you released the photo.
It’s been shown now that it wasn’t the clawed suit, get over it. No one can prove it’s a hoax just as no one can prove it’s real. That leaves it as either the real thing or a newly created hoax suit or sculpture. Let’s think about this for a moment and let’s all put ourselves in the shoes of a hoaxer and pretend for a moment that you are creating a hoax suit or sculpture. Forget about the fact that the subject in the photo has huge muscles, those can be sculpted with foam. Forget about the lack of a neck, that could be just the way a sculpture was made. Forget about the length or color of the hair, those are easy enough to come by. But consider for a moment the patches of skin showing though the hair… Would you, when creating a hoax have intentionally left patches of skin showing though the fur??? Would you??? IF it was me, I would not be happy with a fake that would be so woefully incomplete. Would you??? I would have spent the time to make sure the fur was thick enough to not show “skin” through it. Just like they did with the back side of the clawed suit. You don’t see any patches of skin showing through the clawed suit do you? Why? Because it would have been incomplete.
Shawn do us all a favor and write a short blog on Scientific Method, what it means and how it is achieved.
ReplyDeleteThe define evidence/data/results and what counts in science.
You won't find this situation rises to science in any way, and you can save us all from these possibly well meaning, but sadly misinformed, amateur Bfers.
God man, I can't take it anymore!
What you mean you can't jump from hypothesis to "fact"....dang and I was so close to figuring this whole BF thing out. Lol
DeleteI agree, where is the science in ANY of this?
Unfortunately, science sometimes ends up being what people make of it - here especially!! They make things up, fit things where they think they should go and generally make it all about themselves. It's called "egomania" and this community is full of it. I think the real "scientists" just plain keep quiet.
DeleteJN
In todays world, people dont know the difference between science and science fiction. This is a silly costume and a good number of people are being duped by Hovey to believe it could be real. She says shes neutral and just wants to know the truth, but when the truth is presented to her her shrill responses on this site makes it evident that she wants people to believe her hoax is the real deal.
DeleteWhat rtruth was presented to her? By who? When did she shrill or whatever you (her?) No ones being duped by Hovey, she said she didn't know and to comew to your own conclusion....Moron!
Deletelol j/k I know this is an entertainment site...damn! You are good Shawn!
ReplyDeleteStupid us who want this story to go away.
ReplyDeleteShawn measure comments, this photo has more comments, or as many, as the Sierra Kills, or DNA study.
How can Shawn tell if we comment at length on stupid stuff?
If we are silnet this round, maybe it will go away?
If I could delete this comment, and still make this point, I would.
No comments from this ANON Shawn, till you leave this story!
The "Clawed" suit had patches of skin showing on the front...
ReplyDeletenoone cares about this stupid photo or melisa hovey, quit this shit.
ReplyDeleteGo away then.
DeleteYou go away MELISSA!
DeleteGood for you, Chad!!
ReplyDeleteThe owner of the Clawed suit went missing (along with his two boxers) last October in the Sierra Nevadas.
ReplyDeleteLove the headline pic, Shawn! Perfect...
ReplyDeleteDavid from the PAC/NW
Patches of skin. You know what's funny Chad, you cannot assume what another artist may do to interpret his work. Just because YOU wouldn't doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. Take a moment and look at the controversy that this one bit of detail has caused. Artists focus on detail all of the time and there are reasons why they do what they do. You see it all of time in movies. If you bothered to watch any behind the scenes stuff you would know this. This is just a dumb conclusion that you came too.
ReplyDeleteI think that for the most part people are sick of hoaxers and sick of people that have the resources and potential to find definite proof but just run around on tv at night screaming in the woods and beating trees with ball bats and claiming this is real scientific research.
You know what I would love to see is for the Discovery Channel to take someone like Les Straud and send him off into a region that has a high rate of sightings for about 3 or 4 weeks straight. This is what it's gonna take to find definite proof. It's gonna take someone like him to pull this off.
Les actually claims to have encountered a bigfoot in Alaska.
DeleteYes his story is here somewhere.
DeleteThere have been rumors that he may do this. The episode in Alaska really freaked him out. He said in the interview there was another experience, but never talked about it.
DeleteChuck
I love the argument that "it must be real because its too obviously fake to be a hoax." You can't make this stuff up, folks.
ReplyDeleteBill's right here. I personally think they must be a giant race of hairy people so it seems only in the movies are they shown to have uniformed long hair when they're really more chimplike in hair up close. At least the females would appear to be where this subject's probably male, if real at all. So when we look at Patty in the Patterson film she's also clearly showing skin all over her body under her hair, by 1967 that'd be next to impossible to do nevermind getting everything else from build to gait so detailed correct. Believe they're likely a lot less hairy than we think, sure they're hairy all over but my guess is it's not that thick nor totally covering as in fully consistency like ape norm cliches.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It's 50/50 here, could be real only too little's seen to really tell.
DeleteWhen these pics come out, I keep thinking back to the Patterson film. The hair on the Bigfoot in that film was short, uniform and appeared to cover the entire body like that of a gorilla. A gorilla is completely covered for the most part but you can still see its muscle tone. It's like comparing the hair on a sheep dog to the hair in a pitbull. You can see all of the muscle tone on the pitbull but not a bit on the sheep dog.
DeleteSo no one would make a suit with skin showing through?...you mean like the front and face of the Clawed suit?
ReplyDeleteJeez...what a bunch of jerks. I think that some of these comments reinforce some of the stuff that was in the main post, though the people who made the comments would probably not like that. I think that there is a bias against stuff that seems "too good to be true." Combine that with heavy competition within the community and, perhaps, some other motivating factors and you can see why this photo, along with the Ketchum DNA study and any other really good evidence, is treated so badly.
ReplyDeleteGreat post!
DeleteThank you, Blondie...;)
DeleteThe skin showing through makes some sense of all the reported sightings where the Bigfoot is described as hairy but the observers comment on muscles also being visible.
ReplyDeleteAnother good point..
DeleteThere are patches thinner hair shown that show through on Patty also. M K Davis has two new videos on this. Can be seen on Bigfoot Encounters-Whats New.
DeleteChuck
MK is so full of bullshit.
DeleteI seem to recall that Melissa Hovey never disallowed the the photo might be a hoax - in fact, did she not explicitly state that it was the possibility of it being a hoax that prompted her to move forward and release it?
ReplyDeleteComparisons to Melissa Hovey and Todd Standing, however, are simply ludicrous. Standing is a hoaxter, huckster, and hackster - I called him out years ago on another site, without having to do more than some quick research via the internet. It astounds me that he's still at it so many years later.
Melissa Hovey has shown herself to have a great deal more integrity and honesty than standing does, and I really don't understand why people are rushing to lambaste her.
Those of us who accept the possibility of large, as-yet-classified primates roaming this Earth are disappointed that the photo is pretty much useless as evidence in support of that possibility. Those skeptics who are devout followers of the Church of Materialism (RIP Robert Anton Wilson), are having a field day, having been given more fuel for the fire of their blind zeal in misapplying the tool of science, which they treat as a mediaeval Christian would treat Christ's purported toenail.
Boy do you have your head up your ass when it comes to history, bigfoot, and hovey! LOL!
DeleteYour hypothesis is meaningless without data to substantiate it. LMAO!
DeleteReal nice write up Chad. Pretty much how I have felt about this all along. Derek Randles also had a nice supporting piece earlier today as did many others.
ReplyDeleteChuck
Where was Randles' piece published?Can someone show me?
DeleteHoaxer or not, at least Standing has made the subject more known to many and his quest for protection of the species shows the right attitude and heart. In my view, a Rick Dyer's an even bigger hoaxer with a demonic soul to boot.
ReplyDeleteThere is no way on Earth that that could be a suit. It's not possible. It could, however, be a sculpture of some sort, but I seriously doubt it. It's either a sculpture or a real living creature.
ReplyDeleteLOL and you are...?
DeleteIt says his name right above it. Geez, can you not read? Who are you???????
DeleteIt has all to do with the pic it's a back so most people see a red flag, then this Clawed director says it's his costume, then the photographer never releases the rest of the story (pics)...
ReplyDeleteSo it has all to do with pic !
The people who worked on this film probably don't have time to play Hovey's games by proving it's their costume. They've got better things to do, and they are probably laughing at her.
DeleteThey DID contact her and say its not theirs. Jesus Dude, you have got it out for Hovey. Jealous huh? I understand why.
DeleteThe points I have been trying to make that many of the respondents failed to realize is that the "community" upon hearing the rumor that she had a photo demanded she release it, then scolded her for doing just that!!!
ReplyDeleteI know how the scientific rules work, I work in engineering (which is a profession that uses nothing but science). I did not say the photo was proof. What I am saying is that it COULD be a real photo. I know that, as has been quoted many times before, only a body or DNA will prove BF's existence.
What I am saying is that the "community" of "believers" needs to take a look how everyone treats one another. With this round of photo bashing I would say most believers are actually skeptics. (I know skeptics read this site as well, no one can change their minds. Don't bother them with the facts their minds' are already made up). What I am say is that even the believers appear to be worse skeptics than the skeptics have been. If the photo is not good enough it's a blobsquatch. If it's too good, it must be a hoax. The "community" needs to work with each other, not against each other! Nothing is going to get done if everyone is at each other's throats. The behavior that I have been seeing over this latest photo is appalling. Problems never get solved in combative environments. It certainly doesn't work in engineering and it certainly won't work in bigfoot research.
Also to those that take joy in insulting people, I did notice the bare skin on the front of the suit. That's where you would EXPECT to see bare skin on a gorilla like suit because as everyone (but them) knows that gorillas have bare chests. The point I was trying to make was that on the back side of a movie costume there would not be any intentional small sections of bare "skin" showing in that particular location!!! My argument for the photo being real is based on the fact that a hoaxer would not have thought to intentionally leave bare patches of skin were there ISN'T SUPPOSED to be any.
What I think is needed is a giant fire hose to put our everyone's burning torches. Because if the "community" is going to crucify EVERYONE for releasing or posting excellent quality photos and videos then no one is ever going to release excellent quality photos and videos.
MAYBE this behavior is why the Erickson project hasn't released any photos or videos yet. They may be just to reluctant to release them to a "community" that obviously does not deserve it. Who wants to give food to a dog that's going to bit their hand for doing just that. Maybe this is why it's taking so long for the DNA study to be released to the public. They want to make it so that no one in the "community" will be able to back hand them for doing just what the "community" has been demanding of them.
My post was about the "community's" behavior more than it is the whether or not the photo is real.
And I still say thank you to Melissa for releasing the photo after so many impatiently demanded it. In my mind, this reaction has guaranteed that no additional photos will ever be released by the originator. Who wants to deal with a "community" with such a bad reputation for crucifying everyone that takes a photo!
If I were a walk out into the woods come across a bigfoot and photograph it. I would certainly think twice about releasing it to this "community".
In case you haven't figured out why I am using quotes by now. community denotes a group of people that work together for a common purpose or goal. But no one in this "community" seems to be able to work together.
Chad W
I understood your points Chad and I do agree that the community needs to work together.
DeleteAnother problem besides hoaxers are the trolls. Bigfoot is a troll magnet and it takes time to weed through pointless and unintelligent comments.
You must admit that this photo at best is inconclusive.
Costumes have evolved and so have costume designers.
The photo is as clear as can be, unfortunately it doesn't show any frontal features.
I do appreciate Melissa sharing this photo.
I still like redheads with big boobs.
ReplyDeleteAmen! :D
DeleteThe bottom line is that no one can tell from this photo whether this is real or not. There are no reference "samples" for comparison. So that just means that all the comments are just conjecture and mostly a waste of time except for the points of examination that are raised. You simply cannot tell if it is a costume, a really clever artists impression (and I have seen some good ones)or a real animal. Anyone who states categorically that this is, or is not, real is just fooling themselves. Then again, that has never stopped people from making a fool of themselves in the past. Problem is that most of make judgements about this sort of thing and then spend huge amounts of energy trying to justify our decision to ourselves and others. That is not remotely what science is about. Unless you have all the original untampered images, the technical data on the camera, plus the supposed place, time and date the image was obtained, you are just whistling in the dark. Mellissa Hovey has not done anyone a service by producing this without the additional information that would allow at least the beginnings of a decent assessment of it's validity. Time to move along folks. This has been done to death.
ReplyDeleteNo one can tell whether this is real or not? Well I can, so don't speak for everyone as if they share your views. This is a fake, and I can tell the difference, if you cant, then dont speak for us people who can.
Delete"Anyone who states categorically that this is, or is not, real is just fooling themselves."
DeleteYou are illogical. You just stated that no one can know whether this is real or not, so only the confused people such as yourself are not making a fool of themselves? This is like saying no one can tell if chewbacca is real or not.
I appreciate your article Chad and I understand your point of view.
ReplyDeleteWhy are there so many negative people in the Bigfoot community? It's because of hoaxers. There are more hoaxers than there are legitimate enthusiasts/researchers etc., etc. Hoaxers get a lot of air time and YouTube hits, not to mention plenty of blog time.
It's no secret that I despise hoaxers. This is their contribution to the community,they cause doubt,suspicion and a jaded mentality amongst "believers" and skeptics alike.
I could comment on other uploaders of YouTube videos, but I have nothing definitive to say outright that they are hoaxers. In fact, they have a following of diehards and nothing can sway the minds of these folks.
I honestly can't see why someone would spend all that time to venture out and falsify "evidence" of Bigfoot. It must be for attention because I'm not aware of any rich Bigfooters.
Hoaxers are the number 1 problem facing the community. Until they are ignored, the problems and infighting will continue.
That's my take on it.
It's fun to see what ridiculous evidence.you'll defend as "genuine." One of my friends camped out with a PA system amplifying chimp howls throughout a state forest. The next month, many stories and reports came out in blogs about bigfoot "vocalization". It's hilarious. Same with "tracks" and "blobsquatch" footage. It's just too easy to fool you guys. And that makes it fun.
DeleteAhhh....man that's funny as hell!!
DeleteSquatch Hoaxer, apparently you didn't read anything I wrote. I did not defend the picture as genuine here, or anywhere else on this blog.
DeleteIf you think hoaxing is funny, just wait until some nut job with an elephant gun shoots one or two hoaxers because he/she thought it was Bigfoot.
Yeah, won't that be "hilarious"?
Since you made the claim about your friend, prove it. Show us your hoaxes.
Bill Jackson: You think the hoaxing is funny and in the next breath you say we need standards.
DeleteAre there two Bill Jackson's posting here?
You know, everyone brings up some legit points. She never did say the photo was real or otherwise, she just posted it.But let's put that aside.
ReplyDeleteWe need to establish some sort of comparison model when it comes to these things. I always reflect back to the Patterson film because of the countless times it has been attacked and withstood. But that is just me.
Today anyone can fake anything. We just witnessed a photoshop rendering that changed the color of the clawed suit's hair that looked real. We need guidelines and I think that it's time that they were established and by credible people too. Not these yahoos that run around an hour or two in the woods with camera crews and making all kinds of noise.
one question to ask is could there be different variations of this species? I have heard some researchers say there are probably less than 1,000 sasquatch living in North America. If this is true how is it possible that there can be that many different subspecies?
As a community we really need to come together and agree on some guidelines and get some real field researchers out there looking for this thing. It's possible that Bigfoot is real, near extinction, and if we can't do something about seriously proving it we may never be witness to its actualization.
I don't think it's time to move along, I think it's time to learn. Learn how to treat each other. Chad W, you make a lot of sense sir. That is one of the best posts I've read. For Gods sake, don't we want to see possible evidence? I know I do. As I said before, skepticism is needed here in research, but the ridicules rudeness is not. If we ever have a chance of propelling ourselves into any kind of serious light we have to change the way we treat each other. We need more qualified scientists to get involved, but why would they take it serious? All they have to do is peer into this hornets nest and they run the other direction. We are our own worst enemy. Sad state of affairs in Bigfootery.
ReplyDeleteDerek Randles
Derek, most of the "ridicule" comes from true believers such as yourself. I can quote several comments you yourself have posted on this blog about how skeptics are "fat pizza pocket eaters who live in their mom's basement." You're a hypocrite.
DeleteYou're right, but at least I don't live in my moms basement. Go ahead and go back and post my quotes. Pretty sure they were addressed to people that were being way out of line or excessively rude. If that makes me a hypocrite then so be it. Guilty as charged. Feel better?
DeleteAlright, fair enough, you got me. I do live in your mom's basement (tell that bitch to come clean up, its a mess down here) and tell her to bring me some more pizza pockets. Now!
DeleteAlso, I don't give skeptics a hard time, skepticism is needed in this arena. I only lash out at rude uninformed assholes that pick on people simply because they don't agree. There is a difference between standing up for what you believe in, or being rude simply because you're a dick.
DeleteDerek Randles
Ha, thank you Mr anonymous! You just proved all my points. Night pumpkin :D
DeleteDerek Randles
Night Mrs Randles : )
DeleteNight MELISSA!
DeleteTrue Derek. It's funny how bigfooters can't even agree on what this Bigfoot thing is, and then we get all the trolls feeding at the bottom. It's a mess, but it's a mess encouraged by the troublemakers primarily. Disagreeing's fine but attacks and ridiculing's not, people doing that clearly aren't bigfooters and they shouldn't even be allowed to comment here. I don't understand why we allow people to enter blogs where topics are discussed you disagree with, just because the subject's Bigfoot shouldn't mean it's open for all kinds of trash. They're only here because there aren't that many other places they can spew, except JREF maybe, and they have no traffic or exposure so obviously trolls come to Bigfoot blogs. Which is precisely why we shouldn't accept it. I know they'll yell Communist or censorship, but there needs to be some kind of order when one particular subject's dicussed otherwise it'll stay the way mainstream science probably wants it. A mess. And we don't want that do we, that can't be in our own best interest.
DeleteIT HAS NO ARMS! WHY CAN'T PEOPLE SEE THAT ONE CLEAR, OBVIOUS FACT?
ReplyDeleteI agree. People are blinded by the bullshit!
DeleteIs it my imagination or have things gotten worse? Is that it or the ability to attack a person anonymously?
ReplyDeleteDerek and SasquaiNation, you guys are always a voice of reason for me.It hurts when someone like you and your opinions are disrespected.
What do you guys think? It scares me at times because there is so much vitrol. The only other thing I've seen that causes this much anger and discord is politics. It truly is a sad state of affairs.
It was reminding me of politics too! Pretty similar though. When you look at how things are run and the people who work hard to make a difference with the opinions of those who only give opinions. And on top of that, there is always so much more to say hindsight!
DeleteLindsay Broughton
I wonder what is happening tomorrow? It's Thursday and I thought there was an expectation something would happen in March on a Thursday? Oh well, we've got four of them total so who knows.
ReplyDeleteNothing is going to happen. No publication, no Erickson project, no proof of anything. Just like the last 50 years of bigfoot."research." Check back in 10 years, nothing will be different :)
DeleteI'm constantly amazed how all these trolls and skeptics still can't quite keep from checking it out. Who said hypocrisy. I'd check back in 10 weeks, good chance we have some cool news for you then. :)
DeleteLon's got a great article here on Native American's and Bigfoot. One group called Bigfoot " Boss of the forest". I like that.
ReplyDeletehttp://naturalplane.blogspot.com/
Native American's what?
ReplyDeleteI think it's fun to get pictures of possible Sasquatch images, disect it, get opinions, try to find the truth behind them! Anymore?...from anyone? I would love to see more!!!
ReplyDeleteBTW I was laughing-out-loud at a couple comments passed back. Geez you guys!
Lindsay Broughton
Anyone who believes Hovey's Hoax photo has not a clue in their brain. This just goes to show anyone who takes a pic of an ape suit can get all sorts of people believing in it. People have lost the ability to reason.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, you just proved it yourself. Care to explain how it's a hoax? Thought not you could, so shut up and find that rock again.
DeleteGo away MELISSA!
Deletehttp://txsasquatch.blogspot.com/2012/03/misinformation-and-flat-out-lies-is.html?showComment=1331303977367#c8531135162700163312
ReplyDeleteI don't hide behind the name "anonymous" - when I have something to say, I am happy to share it with everyone and sign my name to it. Don't worry, I won't be going away :)
God, I wish that loudmouth would just print his name so when the time comes he will have to be judged by these comments. What a complete moron. I think he needs to go back and finish high school.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone know who Hovey was before this pic came out?
ReplyDeleteNo.
This entire situation was designed to ride the Ketchum wave and put her on the map as a "researcher".
Unless she has anything more to offer other than this hoax picture, she really needs to just go away.
If you would spend as much time researching this specimen as you do trying to discredit and slander Ms. Hovey, we would have our answer by now.Troglodyte!
Delete