Monday, November 26, 2012

What it would take to create a hybrid population [Ketchum Report]


Editor's Note: This is a guest post by Jeffrey Kelley, an administrator for the Facebook group, The Squatchers Lounge! (Click on link to join).

Hybridization Population:

For any new type of hybrid population to thrive some very difficult things would have to happen. First how many animals in the hybrid population are needed to sustain a breeding population and continue to grow into a species? 5000 members would be needed to actually create a hybrid species and sustain that population for long term growth.

https://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/a-magic-number

So to “create” the Human/Unknown hybrid mammal known as Sasquatch, as the latest press release is claiming, would mean that some 5,000 unknown primates would have to have interbred with the Human population to have the magic 5,000 hybrid members to exist in the span of time that would allow those mammals to breed within their own population and continue the hybrid species for any great length of time.

What does that mean? Well it would mean that these 5,000 unknown primates managed to either abduct, take advantage of, or mate with humans, and those births would have to be viable enough to grow to sexual maturity to be able to then breed with each other within a few generations before the sexual capabilities would no longer be available. Not only that but those animals would then have to find and breed with ONLY the hybrid population to continue the gene pool without degrading the actual line back to just a trace within the population over all.

Primate hybridization does occur in the wild yet the resulting off spring is usually weak and unable to care for itself even after infancy and is unlikely to be chosen as a viable mate to produce further offspring.

What does that leave us with?

It leaves us trying to believe that 5,000 human partners were interbred with some 5,000 unknown primate 15,000 years ago and the offspring from those 5000 pairings managed to segregate themselves from the rest of the unknown population, search out ONLY the hybrid offspring from other pairings, and breed with those hybrids. Then they must create viable offspring themselves that would have to leave the parents and seek out yet another hybrid only result for the hybrid gene pool to continue and exist today.

It leaves me shaking my head. Since mammals overall contain the most complex DNA structure on the planet, and great primates being the top of that list in complicated structure of all, it leaves little chance of a hybrid primate population large enough to maintain that magic 5000 member gene pool to continue the species without again interbreeding back into the unknown primate population and disappearing altogether.
It is possible but unlikely.

129 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Is that the baby Bigfoot Justin Smeja shot?

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    2. Happy looking fucker though. You have to admit that.

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  2. correct...but your last sentence says it all: it is POSSIBLE, but unlikely...
    I can imagine that there was a much bigger population than just 5,000 about 15.000 years ago. I think that 5,000 (IF bigfoot really exists) is rather the current population across North America.
    Best,
    Joerg

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    1. And...stranger things have happened in this world and universe. Hard core science doesn't always apply. "This number that, this number there"...etc, not always the case. Nature is bigger than you and does what it wants. Humans compartmentalize everything so they feel in control. Bottom line, NATURE is in control.

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    2. Well, as unlikely as it seems, all non African humans have been proven to be hybrids with neanderthals. So it's not impossible at all!
      Chad W

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  3. Maybe it was just one horny primate who banged on 5000 chicks. Lucky bastard!

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    1. Wilt Chamberlain claimed he smashed 10,000 broads, so your theory is plausible. This primate guy must have been a serial rapist because there is no way he could have afforded to buy each of those women the 3-5 cosmopolitans it would take for them to even consider getting it on with a monkey man.

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    2. Oh and by the way, I just noticed the photo at the top of this post and I would like to congratulate Flavour Flave on the birth of his new daughter.

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    3. Oooooooooooohhhhbhbhhb. No you didnt

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    4. McCheese, it really does look like him!

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    5. Wrong, thats Obama's baby mug. Taken in Kenya.

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    6. Please keep in mind that your racist statements can be extremely hurtful to those members of minority groups who have historically suffered discrimination. A website devoted to the scientific discussion of cryptozoology is no place for bigotry and narrow mindedness. Do not forget that the creator of this blog is an Asian American who may indeed be sensitive to these types of taunts.

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    7. Don't try an inject racism where i was having a little political fun.

      Besides, this thing doesn't look asian at all. So why you bring'in that up.
      I like shawn.

      Cause your a Libtard, thats why.

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    8. Seeing that Shawn loves this country I believe he now calls himself an "American"

      It's just too bad that some people gt offended when their Lord and Savior Barrak Hussien Obama is made fun of

      As far as the flavor clave comment. I agree it was wrong. Funny but wrong

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    9. I don't mind you attacking me for my leftist views. I am a proud liberal who does not apologize for a political ideology which is responsible for making America a place of equal justice and economic properity. What I do object to is your use of a portmanteau which uses part of a term which is intensely offensive to people suffering from mental disabilities. In the future, when you are attacking my political positions, I'd appreciate it if you would choose different vocabulary which does not grossly insult other groups.

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    10. I'm sorry about the comment, but I also think Ron Pearlman and my old high school teacher Mr. Blakely look like apes and they're honkies so it's not necessarily a race thing.

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    11. To any mentally disabled here who I have Offended, other than the "coconut , mm" please identify your self and I will quickly and completely apologize for insulting you by identifying you with a leftist. That is quite dis-tasteful.

      Anybody,

      Anyone hear mentally dissabled.

      Anyone want to clame the offence?


      No, no I didn't think so, shut the hell up you Libtard!

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    12. Albert Ostman felt he was probably taken from his camp as an intended mate for the Bigfoot family that kept him.

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    13. I tend to notice that the ones who yell racism the most, are more likely to be racist. Don't think this is the case here but the comment was funny. No racist words were used, just said a little monkey baby looked like Flavor Flav's kid. Did any of you see the roast of Flavor? He cracked up on any subtle racists remarks and would probably laughed his ass off at Mayor's crack. Grow up people. If you have a problem with even stupid jokes, you shouldn't be here. There are plenty of child safe sites for you. Do you see me whine about fat jokes or comments? Or about people with head injuries? No, if you can't laugh at yourself you are a dickhead.

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    14. Well, I'm black and I find his comments offensive. In fact, frequently there is a strong undertone of racism in the comment section. I'm a big boy, though, so I can take it. It does, however, make it seem like sizable percentage of folks interested in Bigfoot are racists, not to even mention the out of control dehumanization of women! Jesus, many of you must have mommy hangups or something. Just sayin'......

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  4. There could easily be two to three times that number between Washington, Oregon and California alone. Possible? I'd say probable.

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  5. Just feed a bunch of monkey skunk apes fermented fruit until they pass out. Call fasano or dyer in, there is your hybrid.

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    1. No ,no ,no. We need to improve their gene pool not the other way around!

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    2. Hopefully they are both sterile now and won't continue to pollute the gene pool.

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  6. Booze

    Lo lighting

    Barry white music


    Wala

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  7. Wait a minute... Does it have to be THAT case? They are trying to say most Caucasian's share Neanderthal genes due to Neanderthals breading with Sapiens women.

    What if Said Hominid Species was dying out and females were rare, so they started breeding with Sapiens females then the offspring mated with the original Hominid species? correct me if I am wrong, but would that not also show sapiens MT.DNA?

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    1. no you are right.

      There is nothing saying that the hybrids only bred with eachother. If a femal hybrid bred with a male hominid, then the offspring would still containt traces of human mtDNA.

      Once again, this Jeff guy is spouting nonsense cause it goes against his groups beliefs.

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    2. Good points. Consider that when creating a new breed of dog, breeders do not breed anywhere near 5,000 individuals before accomplishing what they set out to do. A new breed can effectively be developed with only a very few original contributors. The rule of thumb is that you need a breeding population of around 4,000 to maintain a viable species into the future, but that shouldn't be confused with developing that many individuals as the initial startup of the breed. Fact is, the results of only a few initial matings can produce the necessary mix to develop a hybrid population, which if a truly good hybridization happens, can propagate into that large, 4,000+ member, viable breeding population. Outcrossing and then inbreeding, back and forth, can accomplish exactly that. So if it is true that there was hybridization between humans and some unknown hominid, the start up numbers would not have to be as high as this author seems to believe.

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    3. Sounds like genetic tampering to me. What if we are all genetic experiments?

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  8. Where are the bible thumpers/creationists when we need them?

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    1. What use do you have for them when you have the godless?

      The godless hoping desperately that BF is some amazing missing link?

      Just another ape. Human's rule.

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    2. David JamesMonday, November 26, 2012 4:19:00 AM PST
      Where are the bible thumpers/creationists when we need them?

      Why do you think they will support some kind of stupid ape theory? As a former creationist, I can tell you that they are looking at this as proof Bigfoot is a Nephilim, not an ape. Those who do not buy into that are looking at this as evidence against evolution.

      P.S. Calling them Bible-Thumpers is not going to bring them out.

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    3. Wrong

      The fact is BF is a descendant of Cain. Hence, in 200 or even 1000 years we'll still be at the same place in history - Lots of sighting, Myth and No Body.

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    4. A descendant of Cain? lol Though I lean more towards intelligent design now, I went to church every Sunday and Wednesday night. For a few years I attended a Christian Private school in which I had to memorize scripture and a bunch of other crap that I now deem as "useless". But entertain me. Where do you come to the conclusion that Bigfoot is the Descendant of Cain?

      When Cain killed Able his curse was to walk the Earth as a vagrant and fugitive and be the enemy of the earth. The ground would no longer yield it's crops. That his descendants would know no peace and only war. Cain then went east to the land of Nod and built the first city, Enoch.

      Between us and Bigfoot, who is always at war? Who is living in cities and who is living off the land? lol If this is the case you are trying to make, then Bigfoot would be the descendants of Seth and we are the descendants of Cain... Is this a can of worms you are willing to open? lol

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    5. THE LIFE OF DAVID W. PATTEN

      By L.A. Wilson

      p.46, 47

      . . . of Cain to Brother David W. Patten in the State of Tennessee, about which you wrote to me, I will say that according to the best of my recollection it was in the month of September, 1835.

      It was in the evening, just twilight, when Brother Patton rode up to my father's house, alighted from his mule and came into the house. The family immediately observed that his countenance was quite changed. My mother having first noticed his changed appearance said: “Brother Patten, are you sick?” He replied that he was not, but had just met with a very remarkable personage who had represented himself as being Cain, who murdered his brother Abel. He went on to tell the circumstances as near as I can recall in the following language:

      “As I was riding along the road on my mule 1 suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me. He walked along beside me for about two miles. His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle.

      He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight. When he left me I found myself near your house.”

      There was much conversation about the circumstances between Brother Patton and my family which I don't recall, but the above is in substance his statement to us at the time. The date is, to the best of my recollection, and I think it is correct, but it may possible have been in the spring of l836, but I feel quite positive that the former date is right.

      Hoping the above all be satisfactory to you and answers your purpose, I am with the kindest regards, as ever,

      Your friend and Brother,

      A. O. Smoot


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    6. Tzieth...actually an intelligent comment made in this forum. Good job. Most of these brain dead wookies in here can hardly break away from their bong and chatroom forum to even fire off a synapse. Anyway, good job and I agree.

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    7. Tzieth, Have you seen any reports of a bigfoot with a hoe or a shovel, or maybe riding a tractor? Seems to me the big guy has been running for a long time. Thats kinda a state of war. Kinda seems like he does avoid people. But also has a curriosity.

      I here ya, but Nothing you said steers it away from what the Bible said.

      Seems like bigfoot takes his whole subsistance from the earth, Kinda what it says!

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    8. LOL Okay if you want to say Sasquatch are the Nephilim spoken of in Genesis:6 then I can see where you could draw that conclusion. They do fit the description of the King James version. (But not the Hebrew nor greek nor Latin.)

      But to say they are the descendants of Cain is a stretch. Cain built the first City thus his progeny were city dwellers. Now the Book of Enoch which is a direct take-off of where Genesis:6 leaves you hanging sort of links Nephilim and Cain's descendants together and answers that age old question of "Where the Hell did Cains wife come from, if at the time it was only him and Able?" But most Christians either pay no attention to, or do not know about 1st and 2nd Enoch, as it was never added to the Bible. Fundamentalists can point out "The Mark of Cain" and say this is why Sasquatch are hairy, however this mark was placed on Cain alone and not his children.

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    9. Your Comments got me doing a little reserch and I learned a few things this morning. Cain had a son named "Enoch" and Did build a city named Enoch.

      However, The "Enoch" who wrote the other books and whom is quoted by varrious other Bible authors is a "Different Enoch", and was a decendent through Able. Very interesting. Many of the "Anti" tactics of Satan involve a very similar story or copy with change if you will. Anyway, I never realized there was more than one.

      You are familiar with several "ODD" communication stories of recent years where people have claimed that "Bigfoots" Supposedly told them that they were infact, the decendents of Cain. Just Saying.

      Also a couple of recordings have caught the word "Enoch" BEING SAID,---- SUPPOSEDLY? BY A BFOOT, HA HA HA?

      How also, do we not know, that This city maybe one built of Giant stones that we can't explain. Maybe this MO-FO "Enoch of Cain" was a big son of bith, ha ha ha.

      You always put some meat on the table Tzieth. Honarable debate.

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    10. See Tzieth, this is already turning into a religious issue and we haven't even seen the Ketchum study results yet. LOL Imagine the debate when it's public, all the nutters will be up in arms which is precisely why it's been covered up until now.
      In reality we've been held as sucker hostages in our own societies, it's much easier to control this human sheep flock when authorities have secrets of science and evolutional history.

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    11. Also, for your consideration. Some theory says that the mark caused cain to walk forever, but that his children are mortal and can be killed (smeja).

      If in fact a mark was put on him that caused him to live forever, woulnd't that (even if it were an extreme size and hair also, Couldn't we assume there is a "Kink" in the DNA. I mean it might look realy odd to a geneticist.

      Contemplate this. If in fact, there is something in the Dna that cause imortallity or at least extended life????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

      Scientits will go after this like the FONTAIN OF YOUTH!----- SCARY.

      Many Biblical scholars think that what Satan did was jack with DNA.

      You know the Vs. So as it was in the days of Noah, so wil it be in ------
      This could very well spell dissaster if someone started toying with a unique Gene they didn't understand?

      Food for thought?

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    12. NOTES ON CAIN . . .

      September, 1999



      The Cain question has been around for a long time and although some believe he is dead, more believe the Bible to say that he was cursed to live forever [at least while this earth is in existence] and will not die until the end thereof. Genesis 4:14-15 notes that he was cursed to live, not cursed to die, and it was the Lord who put that curse on him. More to the point, the Lord also pronounced a curse on any man who would kill Cain, and to better identify him, put “a mark” on Cain. In short, Cain was cursed to live. He’s the ultimate example of the movie Groundhog Day.



      Are there others here on earth that aren’t “normal”? Yes. Today there are five people on the earth who aren’t in an “earthly” state: the three Nephites, John, and Cain. None of this group is subject to death as you and I know it.



      The David Patten quote is found in all Church literature (even on the Church’s Infobase) and cites an incident that he, Patten, would have no reason to make up. We can thank A. O. Smoot [my grandmother’s grandfather] for writing down the incident.



      President Kimball uses the Patten quote in his book The Miracle of Forgiveness. I don’t believe he would use such if he doubted its veracity.



      Thus, standing safely beside President Kimball, I too believe Cain is still very much with us. The article (below) on Bigfoot, or the many TV stories of such in the northern California region, or the original Reader’s Digest story (mid 1960’s) of the sighting and the only video footage we have, all suggest there really is something out there. With all the sightings, is Cain jumping from place to place? Most calmly answer by saying he has some offspring, very mortal, who look like him and live with him. So while there are more than a few Bigfoot individuals out there, we still have only one Cain.



      But why haven’t we caught him? Consider the consequences to Cain were that to happen. If he were caught and someone believed he had found the Cain of the bible then he could conclude Cain couldn’t be killed. I believe every effort would then be taken to kill him, in every way possible. What could be more unique that an exhibit of a person who cannot be killed? Something immortal? That’s why Cain has done all he can to avoid being seen. I wouldn’t either.



      Is this enough to convince a person that Cain is still with us? I think so; others disagree. So be it.

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    13. Note, two posts above were found on the BYU online Library, of which I have no affiliation, nor do I make any claims to there accuracy, or the accuracy of my spelling!

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    14. Use some common sense. I don't recall Cain being on the passenger list of the Ark, so he's dead.

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    15. One of the sons of Noah was married to a woman who was decendent of Cain. They know that these peole went on to become the canninites, ---- Goliath. Oh yah Baby!

      It was in the wood pile.

      Step up your game ,bro!

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    16. And there were more of his decendants who went on to establish cultures who's later text would indicate, --- had GIANTS.

      Went all over the world after the tower of bable.

      Think about it. If the Bible is true?

      If you never had water all over the world, your next step is build lots of smaller boats to move places. Archeologists find old artifacts from a variety of cultures in places they shouldn't be?And they often include Giants.

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    17. I simply said Cain was dead, didn't I? I never mentioned anything about his descendants, did I? Pay attention, and watch your own game, Leon.

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  9. How many perverted farmers and Michael Jacksons would it take? How many crazy, fucked up people do we have? With the shit going on over the past century this theory which you call "highly unlikely" is actually "higher probable."

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    1. havent any of you seen the proff that indains fucked the bison.it is bigfoot

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    2. You mean to tell us that they ate what they shot ?

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  10. You seem determined to convince everyone that she's wrong when you haven't even seen the data. Why are you so afraid of the idea that Ketchum might be right, Mr. Kelley?

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    1. I don't think that any skeptics are actually afraid that she's right as that's practically impossible at this point. The fear (in my opinion) is that if Ketchum spent five years hoaxing this bullshit how long will it take to debunk it? She has to know that if her results cannot be reproduced she'll be sunk so she undoubtedly will engage in some kind of trickery to hide her deception. I have my theories, but without knowing what kind of technology she had access to it's hard to tell how this is all going to play out.

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    2. Was just listening to David Paulides on Coast to Coast archives from last night. He says the real value of Ketchum's study is that the 3 genomes that were completely sequenced, came back with identical results. So, her work is reproducible. Identical results from 3 individuals, each one tested at 4 independent testing labs. Need more than that? Don't worry, this is just beginning. There's a lot more information to be extracted from the genomes that have already been mapped. Then we still have to get and study the unknown hominid species that started the hybridization. (If they still exist). I'd bet even money that they do. The stealthy ability and/or instinct to avoid humans was passed down to the hybrid species of sasquatch as well(it would seem). Paulides was also saying the journal publication is likely within 7-10 days. He is still under the NDA, so couldn't say too much more that what the latest press release from Ketchum said. But, there's a lot more info that we'll get shortly, that'll answer a lot of the recent questions about this hybridization.

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    3. That's the point. People who have very little information are appointing themselves judge, jury and executioner before the information is available. People who scream foul do it because they want to. Not because there's necessarily any reason to.

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    4. It's the bigfoot community. What's new? People have always participated in character assassination based on rumor, innuendo and speculation. No one bothers to wait for real information.

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    5. Anon 5:42

      There is a controversy!

      You were instantly nominated for one of today's Lesser Idiot Awards, but because of the degree of stupidity of your post, the judges are arguing over whether or not you deserve today's Golden Idiot Award!

      The suspense is killing us!

      What will they decide!

      Are you just stupid enough for a Lesser Idiot Award, or does your post demonstrate the super-stupidity necessary to qualify you for today's Golden Idiot Award?!!

      Please stand over here in our holding area, while our judges deliberate, with Mayor McCheese at the ready. Yes, just keep that same idiotic expression on your face which comes so naturally to you, which might be helpful to the judges.

      Isn't it wonderful, anon 5:42, to be so utterly stupid as to be considered for not only a Lesser Idiot's Award, but to be under consideration for today's Golden Idiot Statuette?

      The other Lesser Idiots will be fawning and pawing you in worship!

      Congratulations on being one of today's idiots!

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    6. James, "reproducible results” does not mean that Ketchum can reproduce her own results within her study, it means that subsequent studies can reproduce her results. I don't see how that could not be self-explanatory.

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    7. Jimmy, you know you're just mad cause you're dumber then a box of rocks. A box of rocks, after all, doesn't believe in bigfoot.

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    8. @9:09....what it means to me is that the genetic information of Ketchum's dna study is solid, because it was reproduced three times, by 4 independent labs. Since her study is the first one to produce this info, it does remain to be seen if others will also. This gets the ball rolling, and will ensure there WILL now be others, besides Sykes study, even if just to prove her wrong. If the science protocol is accepted by peer review, the information can't be easily dismissed.

      There's unknown hominid dna. She's not alone in producing this info, even within her own study. To state that it's practically impossible for her to be "right", when nobody has seen the results, is a bit prejudiced, to say the least. We'll see what we see. I'm excited about it I'll admit. It is fascinating. 5 years for the study and peer review process is not to be unexpected when blazing scientific trails, especially in the field of biology, where it is difficult to get consensus, and get published compared with other fields. The peer review panel as well as the journal itself, don't want their careers to go down in flames, backing something that is false. If it does pass peer review and get published, that speaks volumes itself.

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    9. I am not afraid that Ketchum is right at all. I am simply putting forth information on what it would take to create a hybrid species and sustain it for 15,000 years without going extinct. I am sure we have not found nearly 1/10th of the true fossil record of the Great Primate bush of evolution. There are proably a TON of hybrid crosses that have existed on the planet that I am not doubting but it would take a huge boom in the same type of Hybrid to be able to sustain the line without degrading one side or the other back to just a small fraction of DNA again. Polar Bears and Grizzly bears have been known to produce viable offspring yet we don't have an actual sustained population of that hybrid cross. Why not? Simply there are not enough of them to breed only with another hybrid cross to sustain the line.

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    10. Take a break Jeff, she IS right. We don't know each other so you have no reason to trust me on my word alone but she will prove this very shortly, I don't expect any more delays at this point now it's final.

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    11. James, 5 years for a study is possible I guess. No way in hell peer-review takes 5 years. A semester plus an intersession break tops. Professors do it anonymously and for free as a favor to the journal editors. They usually have previously published in the journal and "know the layout of the land" but are not working on the same thing the paper is about.
      They look for originality(most important) and
      determine whether or not the article is worth a damn. Its usually 1 or 2 people, sometimes more, and they usually don't even work on the same campus. They exchange a few emails, decide who is gonna be the one who communicates with the author(anonymously, via the editor),discuss the paper over the phone and by email and decide if they will accept the paper or not.

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    12. @12:08...Its been 5 years since the start of Paulides/Ketchum's project. 1-1/12 years is not unusual for peer review, especially if modifications are requested by the panel. This peer review has been closer to 2 years. Again not unusual for such a volatile subject as a new hybrid/hominid. You can bet there will be more than 2 people on the peer review panel for any chemistry or biology submission, especially on such a controversial subject matter. Even if Sykes produces the dna of the unknown hominid, and not the hybrid, he should still see the sequences of the unknown hybrid, in his sampling. Which would also prove the hybrid to be real. If he also is testing the Smeja steak, (there should be plenty to go around), he should get the same results. Just another week or two and we'll all be scratching our heads about what it means to be human/homo/sapian, if we're not already.

      I don't think we need to pass legislation to protect them, whatever they are. The Texas boys have been hunting them for 2 years at least, with no success, with a large organized group. They're doing just fine. We might want to protect our fair females in bigfoot country a little better though.

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    13. One or one and half years for a long paper counting the requests and submission of rewrites sounds reasonable. I also agree that something will come out in the next week or so. Thanks for the response.

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  11. Yeah... I agree with Bessinger's comments at the end of the American Scientist article linked in the above commentary. The 5k number is an attempt at a 'standard' for use in conservation biology, and is not an absolute - it is an estimate just like most other quantitative tools used in biological sciences. If a hybrid came from a human mother, there is also the possibility of forced copulation (this does happen in other mammalian species). I'm not saying whether that is 'right' or not, just saying it's something to consider when thinking about the hybridization issue... especially if the father is some unknown (presumably) larger relative.

    For people who find it difficult to believe that something as large as purported sasquatch can get could have human DNA - look up 'hybrid vigor'. Hybrids are often larger than both parent species.

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    1. Duzzit hafta have a point?

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    2. I did bother to read that whole thing, and it wasn't funny, so it should have had a point.

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    3. It did too except to the subborn diehards apparently.

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  12. Im a fleabit peanut monkey
    All my friends are junkies
    That's not really true

    Im a cold italian pizza
    I could use a lemon squeezer
    What you do?

    But Ive been bit and Ive been tossed around
    By every she-rat in this town
    Have you, babe?

    Well, I am just a monkey man
    Im glad you are a monkey woman too

    Well I am just a monkey man
    Im glad you are a monkey, monkey woman too, babe

    Im a monkey
    Im a monkey
    Im a monkey man
    Im a monkey man
    Im a monkey...

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    1. Your the only one who has said anything intelligent or lucid on this entire site

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    2. Heh, a song from a band that's old enough to have screwed Melba's Sasquatch mom!

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  13. Hybrids are only infertile if the chromosomes do not line up properly during embryogenesis. But if the chromosome number and length are the same, then hybrids will be fertile. Clearly, human hybridization with denisova yielded fertile young. Mating with something even older is possible, so long as the 48->46 chromosome shift (from chimpanzees) had already occurred.

    And the need for 5000 individuals is bogus. That's just a sustainability estimate by conservationists. Creation of a hybrid species would require only a single, successful family who then bred with close relatives.

    The really important step is having the resulting children be mostly female for a few generations.
    Caz

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    1. Correct it could result from a single copulation. If that resulting offspring were female and given enough time (generations on top of generations)and enough surviving female offspring, the human mit DNA could become the major surviving mit DNA in the species.

      Remember that these test are on a limited number of individuals it could just be a coincidence that all are from a line with human mit DNA. There could be other populations that do not have any human DNA. Or there may have been some incident that wiped out all individuals with other strands of mit DNA.

      Delete
    2. All good. However, think about what was hybridized in the first place. It is proposed that the original mother was human, full human, like us. Fully modern. So what was this unknown hominid that bred with the human woman? If sasquatch are "half human" hybrids, extrapolate out what traits the father would have had to arrive at a sasquatch from a human. What type of hominid would you need to cross with a woman to get a sasquatch. Hairy. Big, Not civilized or technologically minded. Not neanderthal, not Denisovan, and not archaic, and not ape. What the heck does that leave for a father of the sasquatch clan?

      Delete
  14. Why does any of this even matter there has been nothing published yet.We don't know any more than we did a year ago or even if they exist.

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  15. As a biologist and geneticist, I can tell you it is impossible to have a "hybrid" population. It is fairly easy to create hybrids but the hybrids cannot maintain hybridization, when hybrids mate the offspring will begin to segregate resulting in animals which carry more traits of one parent than the other. Hybrids cannot maintain a hybrid population..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you. In the less than scientific lingo of the press release, we are also hybrids!

      Delete
    2. If this is true, then why do we have Neanderthal DNA?

      Delete
    3. I believe that you are incorrect to disprove your point consider the 'Red Wolf'.

      http://www.canids.org/PUBLICAT/CNDNEWS3/2conserv.htm

      And the concept is that there are hybrid dna not that the individuals are perfect 50% one species and 50% another. As already stated most europeans carry Neanderthal DNA.

      Delete
    4. 8:46-Only some of us do and the reason has not been established. It could be due to interbreeding which would mean(since breeding is possible) humans and neanderthals are 2 subspecies in the species homo sapiens. Alternatively, it could mean us and neanderthals have an immediate common ancestor and that is why there are similarities in the dna sequences. Not sure why in this case everybody does not have some neanderthal dna, though.

      Delete
    5. I thought that we all have like 3% Neanderthal DNA if you haven't seen it already the BBC did a great recreation of a Neanderthal man based on skeletal evidence and what scientists think he would look like. They also touched on the Neanderthal DNA we all carry, it was called Prehistoric Autopsy think people have uploaded it to YouTube, there were 3 episodes recreating different hominids including our oldest found ancestor Lucy :)

      Delete
    6. Thanks for the correction :)

      Delete
  16. We know nothing more about the "study" than we did four months ago. Ketchum has done nothing to demonstrate that she's actually going to be published. She put out a press release on a website that anyone can submit releases to. She has not named any of her co-authors, provided data about her methodology, or done anything to suggest that she's actually sequenced the DNA. The only other person to verify what she's saying is Igor Burtsev, who at best, fell for - or more likely perpetrated - multiple Yeti hoaxes in Siberia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, well what did you expect from the footers? They wouldn't pass up an opportunity to talk shit or declare victory prematurely, it is, after all, what they live for.

      Delete
    2. Congratulations anon 7:54!

      Yes, you!

      Based on your idiotic post, you have been selected to receive today's first Lesser Idiot Award!

      Isn't it wonderful to know that, based on the stupidity of your words, you can receive a prize?

      If you will step over to the dais, our own Mayor McCheese will present you with your award!

      In addition to one McCheese sandwich, because of the sheer idiocy of your words, you will be offered the extra prize of the Idiot's Wreath.

      You may wear the Idiot's Wreath around your neck while attending parties, other social events, or while shopping.

      Imagine the envy of other lesser idiots like yourself, sir, as they watch you preening and strutting with the enormous Idiot's Wreath hanging from your neck!!! You might feel the sudden impulse to dance! Feel free!

      (But don't worry, rest assured that even when you don't wear the Idiot's Wreath, all will still easily recognize you as one of the Lesser Idiots!)

      You will be the toast of Idiotville!

      Now, sir, please stand here and await our Mayor McCheese!

      Delete
    3. Jimmy, you stupid dick-sucker, did you even read my post? I swear the literacy rate around here is comparable to some of those inner city public schools. You need to take your dick out of your momma's rectum, get a dictionary, and look up the definition of the words that I wrote. Why is it that you footers are all so dangerously inbred that you can't understand basic English? I swear to god, when the inbreeding starts the reading comprehension is always the first to go, that and the opposable thumbs. Anyway, when your finished deciphering my post and eating paint chips you can start composing an apology you asshole.

      Delete
    4. Wtf Jimmy? I'm handing out sandwiches now? I missed the memo on this one. If my secretary didn't have such big titties I swear I'd have fired her by now.

      Delete
  17. This is for you SHAWN as you might want to include it on your site. David Claerr who has contributed excellent writings on this site in the past talked about hybridization and progenitors in July of 2011, that dealt with information he was receiving back then, concerning the Sasquatch that makes a whole lot of sense. I urge all interested to go to Bigfoot Encounters.com and his is the first article in the "wants new" section.

    Chuck

    ReplyDelete
  18. the one thing i havent seen .if you breed a horse with a donkey .you get a mule.the mule is sterile.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If I recall correctly it's the male hybrids that are sterile while the females are fertile. The reverse is true in birds.

      Delete
    2. If you breed a hillbilly with an orangutan, you get Tim Fasano. I have no idea if he's fertile or not - I have no wish to find out.

      Delete
    3. If Fasano ever was fertile diabetes has assuredly robbed him of the use of his pecker, so the point is moot.

      Delete
    4. all mules are sterile male and female, most of the time when similiar species mate and produce offspring ( which is very rare for organisms with different chromozome number such as 26 and 28 to produce viable offspring), the offspring would have a chromozome number of 27 and be sterile. Once in a while fertile offspring can be produced which can mate with other hybrids and with either parent line, this is true of wild boar and domestic swine which have 36 and 40 respectively and produce offspring of 38.

      Delete
    5. Jeez the amount of pseudo-scientific hogwash being purported on this site has become impossible to ignore. Hybrid zones, hybridization, hybrid species are all well documented. This is happening as we speak in parts of North America with coyotes and wolves interbreeding, especially in the East, creating what has been dubbed a coy-wolf. The coy-wolf shares some traits of both species and is fertile and can breed with both species.

      The purported hybridization event is easy to imagine. All that is required is perhaps a rather small, isolated population of supposed "unrecognized" hominin. Some males of this species, perhaps due to low numbers of females in their own population, abduct and mate with modern humans-raising the offspring as their own species. And now the modern human mitochondrial dna is introduced into species and- over several generations- can easily be introduced throughout the whole population. This is one possibility among many.

      Shawn I am all for crazy, wacky stories with no filter but when you start giving the platform to people who lack a good grasp of biological/genetic concepts the net effect is to make people who read it without a critical eye stupider. And based on the type of dribble in the comments section lately we don't need to make these people any stupider.

      Delete
    6. Yipee! Finally a comment worth reading. It made the stop worth it.

      Delete
    7. Hey, Anon 8:33, there have been numerous documented cases of female mules producing offspring. Fucking look it up rather then talking out of your ass you dick.

      Delete
    8. Sciatica-I think hybridization is defined as cross-genus reproduction. Coyotes and wolves are in the same genus. The interbreeding in this case may just mean they should be re-classified as a subspecies under the same species, since a species is defined as a self-perpetuating group.
      I am not 100% sure though.

      Delete
    9. Hey, Anon 9:01 I am a biologist so stfu or I will stick my dick in your ass!

      Delete
    10. nice doggy.....niiiiccceee doggy. Pet pet pet, counting fingers

      Delete
    11. There is no such thing as absolute in hybrids of any type. There are reported and verified cases of most hybrids of all kinds of things, giving birth. It happens with fish, birds, mammals. For some reason if a sterile hybrid is around long enough, it will have a very low percentage develop a fertile hybrid. The mule is a good example. Something like 99.6% of mules are sterile, both male and female mules. That means four out of every thousand can breed.

      Delete
  19. Jeffrey,
    Your logic is skewed. The hybridization did not have to occur 5,000 separate times. Sheez!! Once is enough. Also, MVP (minimum viable population) has nothing to do with how closely related organisms hybridize. Hybridization is occuring all the time. You are a product of hybridization. The ability of organisms to interbreed indicates that they are not a separate species, but likely a sub-species. There may have been several (4-5) sub-species of hominins 15,000 years ago, competing, interbreeding...we have selfishly thought that Homo sapiens was the pinnacle of evolution. Now we know that we interbred with Neanderthals, Denisovans, and ??Sasquatch?? Just confirms that we are no different than any other ANIMAL...a work in progress, mixing our DNA, always evolving.

    ReplyDelete
  20. This place is hilarious, you see what Dr. Ketchim is producing.

    I'm not even going to try but:

    Did Dr. K use 3 distinct individual DNA samples from random hair / skin or did she use Smeja's steaks - plural?

    If you answer cool, if not NP bc this is all likely a hoax.

    I dont forsee Nature, Science or Nova picking up on the story.

    Wish it's true

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 3 distinct individuals were used. I believe Smeja's steak was also sent to Sykes, which is also a good thing, if he gets same results. DNA cannot be hoaxed, it doesn't lie.

      Delete
  21. Replies
    1. YAH, I HEAR THE FAT LADY WARMING UP, WHILE YOU ARE PLAYING YOUR LITTLE "WHINNY" VIOLIN!

      Delete
    2. ^^^you must be autistic toonboy. Keep repeating the same simple words.

      Delete
  22. Not unheard of. The European bison (bison bonasus) has exclusively mitochondrial dna from domestic cattle. Looking at the Patterson Gimlin film, there's no doubt that Patty is a part of the genus homo. That's the truth, no matter how you look at it. Some people even want to put chimps under the genus.

    -iKon

    ReplyDelete
  23. seems to be going the same looney toon direction as lloyd pye and his human skull

    claims of a human mother but an alien father or some batshit crazy nonsense

    people cry about science rejecting this because its "taboo" or some bullshit

    fact is its just complete looney toons!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep...toonboy is in a loop again. He doesn't know toon many other words.

      Delete
    2. Lloyd Pye is as close to the truth as anything that I have ever studied. Look him up if you've never read anything he's put out. He also has some interesting videos about his hominoid research on youtube.

      Delete
  24. All the dna analysis in the world is completely worthless until there is a specimem to back it up...

    ReplyDelete
  25. i got news for you dick heads its called the lost book of ENKI it ti tells just what happen 15 to 25,000 years ago they were called the aggigi go to you tube josh reeves will narrate this shit is funny to me all you trolls eat shit and guest what it is angel dna but i wouldnt call them angels steve from cali

    ReplyDelete
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