About The Peer-Review Process And When To Expect The Press Embargo To Be Lifted [Ketchum Study]
With all the recent rumors swirling around about the peer-review process and press embargo, we decided to reach out to a person close to the matter.
Sally Ramey is the Public Relations person behind Dr. Melba Ketchum's Bigfoot DNA study. She was kind enough to direct us to her notes where she describes the processes that must take place before a press embargo gets lifted.
According to Sally, most journals publish on Fridays and most embargos lift on Thursday afternoons. She also suggests that when the press embargo gets lifted, most media outlets generally break the news around Thursdays at 1:30PM EST. Another wave of news will follow about half an hour to an hour after the initial news release.
"All I can tell you is to watch NBC's Web site at 2 p.m. on every Thursday until it happens. They seem to be quicker on the update button," Sally tells us.
"ABC is next."
Here's what Sally wrote in her notes about the peer-review process:
Lots of people have recently been wondering about the process of publishing scientific papers. Here is the basic process, based on my experience doing PR in higher ed:
The researcher prepares a paper about their findings and submits it to a scientific journal for peer-review, which can take MONTHS. The paper is reviewed by a team of scientists with expertise in the discipline(s) involved in the researcher's work. They decide if the research was conducted according to standards and practices accepted by the scientific community, and review the findings to see if they pass muster. It's like a professor checking your work in college. If the review team has questions, they can ask the researcher to provide more info, run more tests, get someone else to run tests that replicate the work, etc. This can delay publication but it is sometimes necessary. ONLY after the review team is satisfied is the paper accepted for publication. Publication in a peer-reviewed journal is the scientific community's "stamp of approval" that the work is valid.
The journal must then figure out when to publish the paper. Some journals work weeks/months in advance, adding further delay. Some work faster, meaning that the paper might run within a few weeks. At some point, the researcher is notified that they have a "pub date." In my experience, you often only know about three weeks out when your paper will publish. Once there is a pub date, the researcher (typically university-based) works with their campus PR folks and the journal editorial and PR staff to be sure that images are prepared for publication, news releases are written and reviewed, and everyone is prepared for the announcement.
If the news is HUGE, the researcher will be interviewed by the science media, under a strict embargo, the week before the pub date. Most journals publish on Fridays and most embargos lift on Thursday afternoons. The science media, journal PR folks and university PR folks all post their stories and news releases upon the lifting of the embargo. This is why big science news seems to be posted everywhere at once. - it actually is.
If the story is HUGE HUGE HUGE, any news conference would be held when the embargo lifts, unless the journal allows it to happen early due to scheduling conflicts - the journal drives the schedule - no one else. And NO ONE can publicly discuss the paper, its pub date, what journal is involved, the findings or other contents in advance of the embargo or the journal will not publish the paper. This preserves the credibility and sanctity of the peer-review process. Hope this info is helpful.
Great work Shawn! you have got some great connections, and its really nice to have a "source" on this.
ReplyDeleteNBC was just added to my favorites, and every thursday has now become a holiday!
Can't wait!!
Paul
I'm done holding my breath on this one. Nothing will come of this.
ReplyDeleteeat some worms?
DeleteGreat work Shawn.
ReplyDeleteGreat job, Shawn. You are the man. Even if they can't give us answers, we all understand the process now. Great post!
ReplyDeleteWell...it doesn't really tell us when the embargo will be lifted, but I guess that this is good for the people who don't already know about this sort of thing. This stuff is not always true, though, so I hope that this is not some sort of red herring. Dean Radin recently talked about his psychokinesis article that is not going to be published until June.
ReplyDelete"Press embargo" sounds like more typical bigfoot BS.
ReplyDeleteSo...ummm...why do you guys allow people to post stuff like this? I mean, I know that you all do not want to just ban opposing viewpoints, but when it is super clear that people are not even trying to be helpful, then you should ban their comments.
DeleteRemember, this isn't driven by Bigfooters, but rather by the science journal. So no, it isn't Bigfoot BS, it's science journal BS.
DeleteBecause this isn't another BFF. At least here Shawn respects peoples opinions good or bad. Same with his non bias approach to stories, he gives it all to us. The BFF are close minded and opinionated in some ways and those that don't agree with their perfect opinion are banned. To be truly scientific minded you have to look at something from all angles and listening to others opinions and experiences is part of it.
DeleteDid you read what I said? I'm not saying that we have to go as far as that. I'm just saying that when it is super clear to any semi-reasonable person that a certain poster is not even trying to be helpful, that poster should be banned.
DeleteUnless we all stand and shout in an orderly fashion, "Liar" or "Hoaxer" people like you will not be happy. Sorry that you are losing sleep over all this.
DeleteNext up: Sasquatch revealed. (Better get some anti-depressants.)
You will be diasappointed. Ramey has failed to mention during this whole episode that the known hoaxer and con-artist Jan Carter has been or is either still living with her for two plus years up to recently.
DeleteNow do you really want to see her as a public relations specialist with such a supposed HUGE, HUGE, HUGE bigfoot unveiling? Collie hockey....all of it ;)
I fully expect to be disppointed.
ReplyDeleteBy gum, if we can't all think alike and agree on everything then let's get to banning!
ReplyDeleteYou didn't pay attention to what I posted.
DeleteAnon in Tx,
ReplyDeleteShawn... many thanx!!! Having a "named source" in Dr K's camp is great. I'm sure we all can respect the process and will anxiously await each Thursday afternoon. I hope there aren't too mnay.
You are the MAN..
TT
I fully expect that this whole thing is going to be laughable ...I dont plan on being duped like the rest of you.
ReplyDeleteBut can we mock you when you turn out to be wrong?
ReplyDeleteOnly if you mock him anonymously!
DeleteHi, has anyone heard any news on the Lindsay Project?
ReplyDeleteHow many bigfoot stories about proof are strung out for months and years on end with no concluding proof or end to the story? For example, how many of you are still waiting for the Matilda footage?
ReplyDeleteSaying that there's a press embargo on this DNA evidence does sound like stall tactic BS.
Except that if it is real, there will be a press embargo, due to the nature of Peer review. So, in your line of thinking: Press Embargo, Stall tactic. No press embargo? Not a real study because real studies require press embargoes.
DeleteFor the debunkers and cynics alike, one specious line of reasoning is all that's needed!
Why respond at all if it is all a hoax? Silence in bliss to someone who has pulled off a hoax. All the chatter on this website alone would be enough to keep them happy. Why put your name and face out there if you don't believe something is gonna happen. (Maybe these people are all looney who are claiming this is gonna happen.) Who knows?
Delete"All I can tell you is to watch NBC's Web site at 2 p.m. on every Thursday until it happens. They seem to be quicker on the update button," Sally tells us.
ReplyDelete"ABC is next."
Which part of the NBC or ABC website??? Doesn't seem to me news like this would be posted on the main page...these are TV networks afterall.
JN
I woulda tie into there RRS feed it would be easy not as much maneuvering thru the day
DeleteGreat job at getting us some solid information Shawn!It's great to have a story with a source.
ReplyDeletePublic Relations... lol
DeleteI don't know much about this process, but I know there are some journals out there that have a reputation of not being overly critical. I hope this study is in a reputable one- not alongside subjects of ESP or homeopathy for example.
ReplyDeleteESP and Homeopathy are real.
DeleteAnonymous (JN) -
ReplyDeleteFor HUGE science stories, the headline SHOULD appear on the front page. I worked with Dr. Mary Schweitzer, the paleontologist who discovered preserved soft dino tissue in 2005. When her paper came out of embargo, because of it's amazing nature and the "Jurassic Parkness" of it, it made the front page on all of the major news sites.
That said, NO science story is going to top major political news. One would think that Melba's paper would be blockbuster news, but if we happen to go to war with Iran on the same day, for example, Melba's research will likely be buried deeper on the Web sites. But just go to the science/technology page within the site to be sure.
In my experience, NBC updates its science stories the quickest. ABC tends to be next. CBS tends to be last - sometimes by a day or two! Fox doesn't seem to care much for science news and CNN varies. I base this on my experience of watching for major stories to hit.
Shawn made one small boo-boo - the typical embargo on each Friday's journal publications will lift at 2 p.m. EST on the Thursday before. (You've all heard news anchors say, "In tomorrow's edition of the journal such-and-such, scientists have discovered so-and-so.") The reference to 1:30 came from a point in our conversation when I suggested that Shawn can check the science media any given Thursday at 1:30 and then check back just after 2:00 -- one should see changes in the science headlines because it's past embargo time. But remember, MOST papers are "boring" or "too hard to understand" and don't get much attention. It has to be a significant or quirky paper to get significant play in the mass media.
As for the poster who called the concept of press embargo "BS," I can assure you that it is serious business. When a paper is accepted for publication and given a pub date, it is immediately under embargo, which means that NO ONE can talk about it unless the journal allows it. The journal will share the paper with a FEW TRUSTED science writers early in the week of publication so they have have their coverage written in advance so it goes public when the embargo lifts. This is why science stories appear magically on the Thursdays before the papers publish - those reporters got a look at the paper that Monday or Tuesday. How does the system remain honest? Anyone breaking the embargo is blacklisted by the journals ... and likely fired by their employer because they cost their media early access to major papers. This is all part of the steps taken to preserve the integrity of the peer-review process.
I cannot discuss Melba's paper specifically but I am more than happy to address the process in general. And as I told Shawn, all I can tell you is to watch the science media coverage on Thursday afternoons, because whenever the story breaks, it will be on a Thursday.
The only caveat I can give you is that SOMETIMES, a journal has difficulty updating its own Web site. Could be a hiccup in their software - who knows? But I have watched a major journal update its own site more than 30 min. late. And I've noticed that the media waited to post their stories until the journal had updated its site --- THAT is how much respect is given the journals by the science media.
Hope this information is helpful and provides clarification.
That's the best one you have written so far.
ReplyDeleteWon't it be nice to talk finally?
OMG are you suggesting that Melba Ketchum is going to war with Iran ?
ReplyDeleteBy herself ?
She would take no prisoners, only DNA. Maybe leave behind some NDA's.
DeleteThank you Sally. Your rationality and clarity cut through a lot of the real "BS" on all sides here. You are doing a fantastic job at official representation of Dr. Ketchum.
ReplyDeleteOf course, many of us are furiously reading between the lines to see if you are indicating NEXT Thursday, but I suspect you are too careful and clever to have left any real clues...
My guess is the "journal" here is going to be something similar to the Journal of Cosmology that published that ridiculous meteorite fossil paper last year. I don't doubt they have written a paper, but my guess is that it was submitted to a crank journal, one that will still put out press releases. Why am I so negative about this? My own thoughts on sasquatch aside, no one involved in this seems remotely qualified to pull off a proper study. A quick search of Ketchum, M in ISI reveals a rather pathetic publication history, including no papers in relevant fields. Remember, just because someone has a job involving genetics doesn't make them qualified to design the study or analyze the data properly. Pet DNA testing isn't anymore relevant to the molecular systematics of a putative relict hominid (especially one that will require such a preponderance of solid evidence) than the work at your local state crime lab.
ReplyDeleteNice to hear from you Parnassis
DeleteMight be spot on ED. There is some method in his work, and it is work, 3000 brilliant posts don't come cheap.
DeleteExcept the 2000 posts where he speaks out of bothe sides of his mouth and calls it inteligent.
DeleteI have no idea what either of you are talking about. Anyway, I regret using the word "pathetic" in the above post. That came off much harsher than I intended. Unimpressive would have been a better choice.
DeleteSasquatchery...
ReplyDeleteI have worked with Sally Ramey on various projects and business ventures for many years. I can attest to her integrity and veracity. Sally is an experienced public relations professional.
live and let live...
Steve Summar
From Melba Ketchum's facebook page moments ago:
ReplyDelete"Good things come to those who wait patiently. :)"
Wait, something is wrong here. This article doesn't mention Robert Lindsay. Are you sure it's posted on the right blog? I thought this was the Lindsay blog now...
ReplyDeleteIf this article is true RL will be dancing a jig because he will be right yet again.
DeleteI have access to, and have read this paper a number of times. Boiled down in its simplest form Melba’s paper states that an unknown primate does exist and a number of DNA samples prove this. These samples include a sample discussed earlier and obtained via Monster Quest by Dr. Meldrum. They also include the supposed “Sierra Kills Steak” and “toenail”. The hair sample obtained by Josh Gates on “Destination Truth” was found to be a simple mountain goat. All samples submitted by Tom Biscardi were found to contain no “Bigfoot” or “Sasquatch” dna.
ReplyDeleteThe “Matilda” photos combined with the results of these tests are what the paper relies on to conclude Sasquatch does in fact exist. Essentially the dna results are explained via the pictures with the conclusion being that Sasquatch does exist. These beings are closest to “Denisova” on the human scale and have an abundance of ape like qualities as well.
The paper is currently being reviewed- however Adrian has a lot to do with this taking and extended amount of time. Adrian’s editors will not able to complete his film until late Spring and he has managed to ensure the paper will be published at the same time of the film’s release.
A symposium is currently being planned for the paper’s release with those attending seeing the film first. This will be hosted by none other than Dr. Jack Bindernagel, and more news on this will be released in the coming days.
LOL
DeletePics of paper or stfu
DeleteSo they didn't need the DNA just the pictures to confirm the existence of Sasquatch ?
DeleteLol. "Jack" Bindernagel...
DeleteWhile I hate to think we have to wait until late spring, this does make some sort of sense.
ReplyDeleteyeah...
DeleteThere are still questions that need to be answered. First to which Journals has the paper been submitted. I can not see how disclosure of that information would be subject to non-disclosure or an embargo. Typically, a non-disclosure agreement would be signed by the peers involved in the review of the submitted research, given that much of what is reviewed is of a proprietary nature; for instance, development of a novel cancer treatment. I find it odd that the names of the Journals can not be discussed or the general content of the paper. As I recall, a recent paper was accepted for publishing by a respected journal that discussed the weaponization of the H1N1 virus and was discussed in the press PRIOR to it's release. The content of the document was never released; however, the framework of the research was discussed PRIOR to publication, and key components were asked to be removed for public safety. I don't see how a journal acknowledging that they are reviewing a paper on an undiscovered primate would void a non-disclosure statement or require an embargo, given that none of the key information of the document has been discussed publicly.
ReplyDeleteSecond, all of the samples, beyond individual differences, should fall into the same species. Just identifying each sample as an unknown primate would be very disappointing, and in my opinion, not solid enough evidence to announce a new primate species.
For me, I wait with baited breath, hoping to not turn blue, but unfortunately, this seems to be much ado about nothing. The constant stalling and convenient excuse making for many of the "projects", videos, research just screams hoax to me.
Great post. I just find it hard to understand *why* Ketchum would pull such nonsense. And for that reason alone I tend towards believing this is an actual scientific study, performed with the rigor expected, and with results worthy of publication in a respected journal.
DeleteBut if that doesnt turn out, I must say I might be done with bigfootery insofar as acknowledgement is concerned.
I should add that the same paper discussing H1N1 was released at a conference MONTHS before it was to be published in Nature and Science. Again, there was no "embargo" against open discussion about the research into the weaponization of H1N1, which is frankly more unsettling than releasing a statement that "Journal XYZ is currently engaged in peer review of DNA evidence of an undiscovered North American primate".
DeleteCould all of this be nothing more than someone waiting for their publisher to finish editing their manuscript about supposed DNA evidence, so it can be rushed to publication when some Journal finally acknowledges someone has submitted a paper?
I cannot take your comments seriously, as I have personally worked with Science, Nature and other journals and they would never go along with such. I can only surmise that you misunderstood what was going on with that "paper."
DeleteTo Anon 6:48,
DeleteIt is a specific requirement that no one identify what journal is considering a paper. Nor will any reputable journal discuss any papers under review. Your information is either incorrect or misunderstood.
In December, the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity made an unprecedented request: it asked the editors of the journals Nature and Science not to publish certain details in two papers describing experiments in which scientists created a highly transmissible form of the deadly H5N1 influenza virus in ferrets. The board’s primary concern was that terrorists might use the data to weaponize influenza.
DeleteHow did the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity know if the paper's existence if no one associated with the paper was allowed to discuss it's existence.
The Anonymous post above (6:23 p.m.) is full of of fabricated information and I'm not going to waste time responding to it.
ReplyDeleteOnly Melba or I speak on behalf of the project. Readers can disregard EVERYONE ELSE'S posts.
Unfortunately, I'm sure we'll see other "anonymous" sources trying to draw attention to themselves before all is said and done.
Thank you Sally for engaging in the conversation!
DeleteFrom a pr perspective, what is your opinion on the constant teases ( ambiguous Facebook posts, etc.)? Surely you can appreciate how this leads to frustration and a sense of this resulting in the same old same old... for those of us with an emotional investment in all this, what should we make of it?
Anon at 7:25. Head of hammer hits nail. Teasers are for advertising movies or new cars, not for supposed serious scientific research, even if it involves a creature than may refuse to believe exists. This all smacks of slick marketing, not scientific research. I seriously doubt there are many high level researchers that have a PR agent involved when they submit a paper to a journal.
DeleteYou are unaware of the fact that MOST published research comes from research universities, government agencies and private/public corporations --- ALL of which have PR staff who work with the researchers and the journal PR staffs on preparations for managing media relations when their work is made public. Melba has no such staffing. I have volunteered to help her because this is what I do professionally. And as I point out in another post, OTHER people have been teasing the BF research community and putting tremendous pressure on the situation. And because Melba is unable to specifically address the rumors because of the requirements of the peer-review process, she can only say "soon."
DeleteEnd the debate and release the names of the journals and acknowledgement from those journals that the paper is under review.
DeleteOf course it makes sense. They've been feeding us this same bullshit for years. Especially at the end of last year when they said the paper would be done before the end of the year. I am so sick of hearing about it. I honestly wish no one would write anything about it until its here. Because this baiting crap is getting old, we just have to string people along a little longer... It's the exact same as the old geezer that keeps predicting the end of the world, and how many times has he said "this is when its gonna happen" only to then say oh no just a little longer. Ok this is when... Same as with this study. Still here we are waiting like morons.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Sally, for the information. I have to say (with the exception of the normal drivel), this is one of the most cogent recent discussions I've seen on here.
ReplyDeleteI would think "confirming" the existence of the Sas would be headline news...even over politics, which is just plain droll at this point.
Keep on watching every Thursday...hmmmm, at least we have a day of the week!!! :) And, regardless of where it's published, at least it will be over with. I have to agree with possible "P" above, I don't know that any of it will be taken seriously.
Lastly, Sally, dear person...it matters not what you say about who speaks about the "project". When people do not have information, they make it up. Some for attention, some for reasonability, some for argument. That's people for ya.
JN
Gee, Sally Ramey, it is very nice of you to continue to participate. It is a shame that you, along with everyone else, have to put up with all of the mean and disrespectful people on this board who are pretty much calling you, and everyone else involved with the Ketchum Paper, a liar.
ReplyDeleteLiar might be a little strong. I think most folks are taking this, along with the number of other posts regarding the timing of the release of the supposed DNA evidence with a huge dose of skepticism. Releasing the name of the peer-reviewed journals to which the paper was submitted would go a long, long way. Unfortunately, because no one is willing to release that information, I for one will remain skeptical until I see the actual paper in the journal.
DeleteMost of these negitive comment are coming from the JREF jabberwaks!!!
DeleteNope, sorry - they are saying that the paper is BS, it is never going to be released, etc. It seems pretty clear that they are calling Ketchum and her people liars. You don't have to use the word "liar" to convey that message.
DeleteNo kidding. Those dweebs from the JREF forum need to get up off of the couch and get out into the woods. Quit playing dungeons and dragons and go look for a real adventure rather than always being so negtative, close minded, and simple. Most of them claim to be so well versed and universally minded but they sound like broken records. Their ancestery tree probably has those who argued taht the world was flat and that we were the center of the universe.
DeleteEd Smith - you make a helluva lot of assumptions. Has anyone ever told you that? Just curious. Prime example of an attention monger, folks.
ReplyDeleteI guess I made the correct assumptions. Great example of a pompous twat.
DeleteWhatever "assumptions" you have made are incorrect, as usual. You are a sad, disgusting, lonely person. Go to therapy where you belong. You have no business lashing out at people who don't agree with you or have told you to back off. You are WAY out of your league. And your league is very, very low.
DeleteOh I expected better of you and again I was let down .
DeleteLoser...
@ JN,
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree. That's people for ya.
To the anonymous poster just above JN's post - please remember that it has been OTHER people who have taunted and teased the BF research community with false deadlines, for whatever ulterior motive. Melba has never provided a firm end date. She uses vague "soon" language - which is all she CAN say. And it is NOT unusual for research projects to take years. The dino research I referenced in one of my previous comments took SEVERAL years before it was ready for submission/publication. I came into that project "late" and I still knew about it four years in advance.
Most scientists are able to quietly carry out their work under the radar. This is a very unusual situation because of rumors generated by people who, IMO, have been disrespectful of the process and have stirred up a lot of unnecessary and unproductive angst.
People can complain all they want about it taking "too long." How long is too long, anyway? You have no idea what it takes to do research unless you happen to be a geneticist, forensic scientist or bioinformatics scientist who has done similar work - and quite frankly, NO ONE has, so there is NO yardstick by which anyone can measure this project. Then there are the illogical assumptions that if it takes "too long" it must be "a hoax" - that one really baffles me. I'm sure a lot of scientists who spend a good chunk of their career on one research project would be highly offended by the idea.
Griping and speculating can make things happen any quicker. You cannot rush research - it takes the time it takes. Everyone needs to be patient. It will happen when it happens - nothing can change the timeline.
But, as JN put it, that's people for ya.
I'm not going to get baited into a game of reacting to every inaccurate, illogical or kooky post that appears. I have more important things to do with my time. People just need to be very discerning in what they read and don't get sucked in to the "rumor of the week." Only Melba or I can speak for the project. Anything you hear from anyone else you can ignore, as I plan to.
You "assume" that no one posting here is a scientist or technical expert that has ever been involved in the development of a proprietary discovery. Research takes time, true. But the research is done if the paper has been submitted for peer review. You don't submit a half-done paper because you need to continue to conduct research to reach a conclusion. That is illogical. There are only two scenarios that I can think of that would require additional research. One, the paper was rejected based upon the submitted research, and further research is necessary prior to resubmission. Two, there is no paper. That is logical.
DeleteThere is nothing illogical or kooky about asking for the names of the journals to which the paper was submitted, and acknowledgement from that journal that the paper is currently under review. Until then, this will continue to be much ado about nothing.
Your post makes no sense to me whatsoever because you're basing it on rumor and assumption. I'm posting some sample journal rules below.
DeleteAnonymous @7:57pm - Sorry, but your knowledge is sub-par. A couple of clarifications:
DeleteI am a published scientist in another field, and I can assure you that no journal allows in-process review to be discussed because of competition between journals, anonymity between reviewers and to not confuse the public.
I once had a non-contentious paper take 2years to get through peer review. It took so long because I was invoking scientific concepts beyond the immediate field of study (applying system dynamics to cell biology) that the reviewers themselves did not understand. So length of time in peer review is nothing to fret about. Just be patient.
As for it being illogical to publish a half-done paper: Every paper is half-done. Every single one. You write up something that makes a convincing story, but there is ALWAYS more. Always. You just have to decide when to stop.
C
So your saying it's being published next week ?
ReplyDeleteThat's awesome !!!!
Just kidding.
But Sally, you are reacting!!! You put the info out there and now people will do what they will. Understanding the fact you want to ensure accurate tidings, but that propels you into the "bait game" for any kind of reaction. This BF community is made up of ALL SORTS. Some are smart and some are rude. It's when they are smart and rude that makes it difficult....
ReplyDeleteDang people anyway!
JN
To anonymous above at 7:57. I agree . I am a scientist and do know the process very well. Only a completed paper is submitted and the reviewers cannot take forever to make their recommendations . If there are lengthy holdups it is usually due to a necessity to submit to an alternate journal due to rejection, or due to reviewers requesting further experiments . However, the latter must be completed within a limited time frame . I am unsure when this paper was submitted, and perhaps its submission is rumor or conjecture as well , but although the research may take years. Once completed the submission process assuming that it is not rejected outright , the reviews and subsequent publication should follow in a timely manner .
ReplyDelete"Only a completed paper is submitted." Yes, a completed paper. But never a completed study. They are never finished. They just keep spawning new papers ad infinitum.
DeleteYes, I’m reacting but I hope this will end the pointless argument over journal policies.
ReplyDeleteI'm posting Nature's policies as representative example. If one chooses not to believe them, no amount of truth, logic or common sense will help. Because of the limit on characters in posts on this blog, I’m having to post it in two parts:
PART ONE:
Confidentiality and pre-publicity
The policy outlined on this page applies to Nature journals (those with the word "Nature" in their title). NPG publishes many other journals, each of which has separate publication policies described on its website. A current list of these journals, with links to each journal's homepage is available.
Confidentiality
Nature journals keep confidential all details about a submitted manuscript and do not comment to any outside organization about manuscripts under consideration by the journals while they are under consideration or if they are rejected. The journal editors may comment publicly on published material, but their comments are restricted to the content itself and their evaluation of it.
After a manuscript is submitted, correspondence with the Nature journal, referees' reports and other confidential material, whether or not the submission is eventually published, must not be posted on any website or otherwise publicised without prior permission from the editors. The editors themselves are not allowed to discuss manuscripts with third parties or to reveal information about correspondence and other interactions with authors and referees.
Referees of manuscripts submitted to Nature journals undertake in advance to maintain confidentiality of manuscripts and any associated supplementary data.
SEE PART TWO ...
PART TWO:
DeletePre-publicity
Our policy on the posting of particular versions of the manuscript is as follows:
1. You are welcome to post pre-submission versions or the original submitted version of the manuscript on a personal blog, a collaborative wiki or a preprint server at any time (but not subsequent pre-accept versions that evolve due to the editorial process).
2. The accepted version of the manuscript, following the review process, may only be posted 6 months after the paper is published in a Nature journal. A publication reference and URL to the published version on the journal website must be provided on the first page of the postprint.
3. The published version — copyedited and in Nature journal format — may not be posted on any website or preprint server.
For open access content published under a Creative Commons license, authors can replace the submitted version with the final published version at publication as long as a publication reference and URL to the published version on the journal website are provided.
Posting of articles on authors', institutions' and funders' websites after publication is explained in NPG's license to publish policy.
More details about the Nature journals' pre-publicity policy:
Nature journal authors must not discuss contributions with the media (including other scientific journals) until the publication date; advertising the contents of any contribution to the media may lead to rejection. The only exception is in the week before publication, during which contributions may be discussed with the media if authors and their representatives (institutions, funders) clearly indicate to journalists that their contents must not be publicized until the journal's press embargo has elapsed. Authors will be informed of embargo dates and timings after acceptance for publication of their articles.
Presentation and discussion of material submitted to a Nature journal at scientific meetings is encouraged, but authors must indicate that their work is subject to press embargo and decline to discuss it with members of the media. Authors are free to publish abstracts in conference proceedings and to distribute preprints of submitted or 'in press' papers to professional colleagues, but not to the media.
Occasionally, journalists and editors hear about work at talks given at scientific meetings and mention this work in meeting reports or editorials in their journals. In these cases, a Nature journal will assess the extent to which authors have solicited this interest or cooperated with journalists. If, in the judgement of the editors, the journal's embargo policy has been broken, the submitted paper may be rejected, even if it is technically 'in press'.
Contributions being prepared for or submitted to a Nature journal can be posted on recognized preprint servers (such as ArXiv ), and on collaborative websites such as wikis or the author's blog. The website and URL must be identified to the editor in the cover letter accompanying submission of the paper, and the content of the paper must not be advertised to the media by virtue of being on the website or preprint server. Material in a contribution submitted to a Nature journal may also have been published as part of a PhD or other academic thesis.
To go with the post above. I am including the rules for the review process from a scientific journal . Although the rules may vary from journal to journal , the basic concepts are similar, although it is the case that not all journals have the online publication option and therefore may not be published immediately . The point is that the review process is meant to be timely as is the publication of any accepted work . I have capitalized some relevant sections:
ReplyDeleteThe Review Process
All manuscripts must be submitted using the format outlined in the Instructions to Authors. Molecular Endocrinology uses a pre-screening process to establish the appropriateness of each submitted article. Every manuscript's cover letter, title page, and abstract are sent to the editor-in-chief and associate editors no later than a day after receipt. These individuals conduct a pre-review of the manuscript to determine whether it should enter the formal review process. Manuscripts that are judged unlikely to be accepted for publication are QUICKLY returned to the author. Returning manuscripts after pre-review saves time for authors who would otherwise have to wait several weeks before submitting their manuscript elsewhere.
Manuscripts accepted into the formal review process are reviewed by two or three individuals who are highly competent and recognized in the particular field of the submitted manuscript. The journal office contacts reviewers that have been recommended by the editor-in-chief, associate editors, and/or the authors. Authors are encouraged to submit in their cover letters names of individuals they feel are appropriate and qualified to review their manuscript. Reviewers are given a TWO-WEEK deadline to complete the review.
When the reviews are completed, a decision is made to either give the authors the opportunity to revise according to the reviewer suggestions, or to reject the paper based on the reviewers' criticisms and the editor's opinion of the paper. In some instances it is necessary to seek the opinion of an extra reviewer if further comment is necessary to make the final decision.
When the editors have completed their decision, the decision letter and reviewers' comments are sent to the author. Any questions or concerns regarding the editorial decision on any manuscript must be made directly to the Molecular Endocrinology editorial office.
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And lastly this is from Nature which has a section regarding timing of the review process:Notice that the timeline for reviewers is stated as number of DAYS and not months. To be fair , no specifics are given , but it is implied and stated that it should be a rapid process
ReplyDeleteTiming
Nature journals are committed to RAPID editorial decisions and publication, and we believe that an efficient editorial process is a valuable service both to our authors and to the scientific community as a whole. We therefore ask reviewers to respond PROMPTLY within the number of DAYS agreed. If reviewers anticipate a longer delay than previously expected, we ask them to let us know so that we can keep the authors informed and, where necessary, find alternatives.
So, what did Sally share with us? A very informative description of the process by which a scientific paper is published in a peer-reviewed journal and the day such articles are typically released. I would just say, "Thanks!"
ReplyDeleteAnd what did Sally share with us about the project, results, release date, or any other pertinent information leading to a hypothesis about the current status? NOTHING! That's exactly what I would add to the, "Thanks!"
Conspiracy theorists, please keep your semi-paranoid postulations to yourself. "Thanks!!!"
I'm as excited as the next guy, but I can wait... I don't understand the angst. Skepticism, sure... goes with the territory. Don't get the angst.
David from the PAC/NW
Shawn: very intersting indeed. But is this real new information? I swear I have read this comment by this lady already 6 or 7 months ago...
ReplyDeleteThe text I blockquoted are from her notes from a few months ago.
DeleteShawn, u are one of the true good guys in this field. Many thanks!
ReplyDeleteShawn
ReplyDeleteI posted the policies from a scientific journal last night regarding the timeline for the review process which is quite short and this post was removed. then I posted the policies for Nature for their timelines for their review process which is still there . These were posted before Sallys posting above which gives natures confidentiality statements . However, the review process for the other journal ( molecular endocrinology ) was removed and my posting about Natures review timeline was moved to be placed below hers, so it looks like this is a continuation of her post.. which it is not . I am assuming this was unintentional and was not trying to sway people away from seeing that the review process itself is usually concluded within a number of WEEKS .
I had posting issues last night, as well. I think there was a kink in the system.
ReplyDeleteJust to make a point ... y'all are falling for the RUMORS about the initial submission date(s), of which there have been many - LOL. The initial submission date has not been, not will it be, disclosed until after the pub date, and then only if the journal and Melba agree to provide it. So you're merely guessing at the schedule. A lot of people have made a lot of false statements, trying to look like they are "in the know." Well, the only people in the know aren't talking because we're upholding the integrity of the process. We can only keep saying that it will be "soon."
Also, not all journals operate on the same timeline. I know scientists whose papers took 18 months from initial submission to pub date. I am a published author in a peer-reviewed journal myself (EOS)- it took five months from start to finish for a paper that was not even 600 words!
Speculation is simply not productive. This will be my last post/clarification on this thread because I don't know how else to respond. If folks want to continue believing there's a "problem," despite the realities of the situation, that can't be helped. but continued speculation when you do not have any facts will only perpetuate the angst.
I sincerely believe that regardless of what journel publishes the findings, many people will refuse to acknowledge the existence of Sasquatch. Regardless of how thorough the tests are, how clear the photos are, etc.
ReplyDeleteAs an investigator I have many times obtained confessions from someone, recovered evidence that anyone with half a brain cell could not refute, yet family and friends would "swear and be-damned" that their person was innocent. Either I made up the entire confession and forced them to sign the statment, or I fabricated evidence and placed it at the scene. Regardless of what lab results said, people still believed what they wanted to believe.
I know that sasquatch is real, I had an encounter with one. I didn't need a peer review to decide whether it was real or not.
When/if the report comes out claiming the existence of this creature, those out there who are crying Hoax, and liar, will shift their attacks to the science and the journals reputation and then shout, "Hoax, liar, mass-hallucination!"
Archer1
Thank you Sally. Your statements do make sense and it is very possible that I have been misinformed regarding submission dates in which case, the review process has not perhaps been excessively wrong . I also do agree that all journals have different policies , but was only trying to iterate that there is a finite time course for the review process. Your post however makes good sense and I thank you for taking the time to respond
ReplyDeleteI can't understand why the above people want to attack everyone's credibility. The sky is falling!
ReplyDeleteRegardless of how gullible anyone is, regardless of who is weaving tall tales, at the end of the day, the study is either legit. or it isn't. So, be gullible, be pessimistic, whatever. The study will either prove the existence of sasquatch, or the lack of a study will prove all of this to be a big pile of yeti dung.
Thank you Sally for taking the time to respond here, I agree there's no need for you to waste any more time on this now. The news will hit us when it hits, until then the geeks will play their silly games regardless, because (A) their lack of patience and basic understanding of how important and accurate this work is and must be treated, and (B) they're afraid it's true. That's basically why the mad trolls play, they're all acting like scared little kids right now because this is going to shake their world view too, so when this is all over one day their dancing days are also through. That bothers them most of all probably, having been proven wrong.
ReplyDeleteMake up your mind, anon at 02:04, how can there be Yeti dung if a Yeti doesn't exist? Hohoho.
ReplyDeletebetter get the paper out soon, if someone got a bigfoot body tomorow and actualy showed it to the world rather than witholding evidence, then they will have the credit of discovering the species and this report will be a complete waste of time for all involved
ReplyDeleteWithout an exhaustive scientific study behind it, would you believe it? You'd be skeptical, right? So would the rest of the world. Everyone would cry, "HOAX!", then the doors of the lab would close tightly in our faces and you'd be waiting impatiently for the results...
DeleteDavid from the PAC/NW
@ anonymous 3:11
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info Todd Standing
I have another question for you, Sally. Recently Dr. Kethcum said that the paper will not be released next Thursday. She also said that she did not have a date. If she does not have a date, then how is she so sure that the paper is not coming out next Thursday? Does she have a range of possible dates when the paper will come out - which does not include next Thursday? If so, would it be a violation of policy to tell us what that range of possible dates is? I think that it is great that you are answering questions and I will understand if you do not answer this one because the other, more rude posters have driven you away.
ReplyDeleteI understand your need for confidentiality Sally. What I am curious about however is, are you worried that some other source may preclude Dr. Ketchum's findings if the journal is not published soon? Also if the Dr. does not have a publish date does that mean that the paper has not been accepted by the review yet?
ReplyDeleteI understand your need for confidentiality Sally. What I am curious about however is, are you worried that some other source may preclude Dr. Ketchum's findings if the journal is not published soon? Also if the Dr. does not have a publish date does that mean that the paper has not been accepted by the review yet?
ReplyDeleteIf i were Dr. Ketchum, i would trace the ape (or humanlike) beings in other parts of the world; for instance South America and Australia.
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