David Paulides and Dr. Melba Ketchum's radio interview last year on Bigfoot Busters Radio [AUDIO]

Dr. Melba Ketchum undoubtedly has kept quiet (until yesterday) about her ongoing Bigfoot DNA study that's been put up for peer review. She hasn't always been this way. In fact, prior to the submission of her findings to peer review, she gave multiple interviews on numerous television and radio programs including Destination Truth, Coast to Coast AM, and BlogTalkRadio.

Just over a year ago to date, David Paulides and Dr. Melba Ketchum was invited to Bigfoot Busters radio show on BlogTalkRadio. In the interview, Paulides explains his extensive background of 30 years as a former police officer / professional investigator and Dr. Ketchum describes how she got involved in Bigfoot DNA testing.

It's an interesting show and it's one of many shows Paulides and Ketchum were special guests in as they publicly announced their project asking people to send in their Bigfoot samples.

Listen to internet radio with TcsjrBigfoot on Blog Talk Radio

Mon, Nov 1, 2010

Dave Paulides and Dr. Melba Ketchum will grace our show Halloween night ! This show you won't want to miss ! Dr. Melba Ketchum has been working with Dave and other Bigfoot Research teams to gather Hairs and Bones from suspected Sasquatch in order to pull DNA and make history.

Here's Dr. Melba Ketchum's transcript courtesy of OregonBigfoot.com:

In that program, Dr. Ketchum describes how she got involved in Bigfoot DNA testing.

"I have a curious mind and I'm a renegade, and I'm not a PhD, that's probably most of it. I'm old enough that I predate the latest trends in molecular biology. I had to learn it that hard way - from scratch. We started getting samples back about '95, starting with some unknown feces samples. We had some from Texas Parks and Wildlife and we had some from that people would send in and want to know what animal left this DNA here, so we sort of routinely did species ID.

"About '95, we started getting the occasional person calling, 'Oh, we believe we've got Bigfoot," [and I said], 'Oh, ok, whatever...If you want it tested, we'll test it.' And for years, we got nothing but horses, or raccoons, or any number of different, you know, creatures. I didn't take it seriously, but I would test it nevertheless. I try to be open-minded and not close-minded and I think that's the veterinarian in me, because we're kind of a different breed. [laughs]

"So, two years ago in the spring, we had a couple of samples submitted, and actually Dave [Paulides] was one of the submitters, that sent some hair to us, and Destination Truth, it was a show... I was so tired of dealing with these things - I [knew] that they would be close enough to ape or human that they would run on human markers if they were something worth looking and so I got to the point that I would screen these things on human markers, and if they tested out, fine, and if they didn't I would just pass it on and say, 'Nope. Not what you're looking for.'

"Well, we had two samples... those two samples actually turned into something a little bit different? And I was foolish; I wasted a lot of the DNA because I wasn't believing I was going to get anything. We did get some interesting results and they were just... it was different results for different types of testing, though, so we couldn't combine the two and go anywhere with it. And, like I say, we didn't have enough DNA to continue on with it. As a result, we just had to let it go... but it led me to believe that there might be something worth looking for.

"Shortly after Destination Truth aired, we started [laughs] receiving a huge number of samples from all over the country. In fact, all over North America. So... we're knee-deep now in this huge undertaking. [laughs]"

Melba is the asked about the Destination Truth sample, how it didn't match any known primate or anything in the large database she checked.

"Not exactly. That's not exactly what I said. Things got... kind of 'spliced'. [laughs] Basically, we did get some differences that didn't blast in Genbank. They were very subtle differences but there were a couple of bases difference that what would normally blast in Genbank. But, once again, it was only [primary run?] and there was only one sample in that and there wasn't much else I could do with it because we used up the DNA. Most of that hair did not have root material on it. It's very hard to get... one peculiar thing that we've found about what we believe to be Sasquatch hair is that it does not want to give up its mitochondrial DNA very easily in the hair shaft like other creatures. Even human is easier to get the DNA out. And there's been a raging debate amongst me and my team as to whether it's actually inhibitors that's causing it or whether somehow the DNA just doesn't make it into the hair shaft like it does in other species. So we have to have good rooted hairs. We have to have hairs that have been basically pulled out by the roots in order to get good DNA for our purposes."

Dr. Melba Ketchum is asked how many "unknown" samples she has that have been collected in the last year, and whether "unknowns" means that she has tested them and they've come back as a large, unknown primate.

"Quite a few... we can't discuss results, because I'm going through peer-review with our paper before we let anything out. Let me be clear about that. Because we're doing this as forensic cases, we're documenting, we're taking every conceivable care in making sure that everythign that we do is by the book scientifically, so it would be good enough to stand up in court. And part of this would be a peer-reviewed article which is now being written, anctually, and whenever we get the peer-review back is when this thing will come into the open."

Dr. Ketchum is asked whether the unknown from Destination Truth and America are similar.

"Well, there's subtle difference from where they come on the body, they're different lengths, obviously. They basically look very much alike. The Destination Truth [hair] samples were interesting in that there were some fibers in there as well as hair, so what everybody saw in there was not just hair. It was a combination of things... I think that they run generally very similar, even across continents, from what I've seen. But that's not to say that one that lives in a more frigid climate isn't going to have a longer hair coat. And also where the hair comes from on the body is going to affect he length. You have short hairs and you have long hairs on your body. Think about it. And the same with any other type of animal. I horse has a long mane, a long tail, and short body hair."

She is asked if the DNA will look the same, regionally.

"Well, yes... in a general sense, it's going to be the same amidst the species. However, you have subtle differences as with any breed of horse, or humans. Some humans are redheaded and some humans are black-headed and you're going to have differences like that, I'm sure, that are subtle differences. But the overall organism, just like overall human beings, for instance, are going to have basically very similar DNA except for some physically characteristics and maybe some mutations or genetic disease or what have you. And that's like that with all species. So they will basically be the same, but there will individualized differences, of course."

Melba Ketchum is asked a chatroom question: "Why is it that the mitochondrial DNA is most often identified while the nucleic DNA is difficult to identify?"

"Well, mitochondrial DNA is a 16.5-thousand base loop of DNA that lives in the mitochondrial, or a little organelle, that's in the cytoplasm of the cells. It is maternally inherited. There's approximately 100 mitochondria in each cell, so there's 100 copies per cell., making it much more plentiful and much tinier than your regular nucleic genomic DNA, which is in the nucleus of the cell, and it only has the copy from the mother and from the father. So you've basically just got your chromosome that carry it. So you do not have the copy numbers that you have fro the mitochondrial DNA. And these little tiny organelles, with this little tiny loop of DNA, oftentimes, if some of them get degraded - say the DNA gets moist and mold and bacteria starts growing on it and that's how it gets degraded - you've got 100 times better chance of actually retrieving that little bitty loop of DNA from the mitochondria than the nucleus of the cell. So it's used in degraded remains. I worked on the World Trade Center disaster. There was a team of forensic scientists that was put together to analyze the remains and a lot of these, the only thing that was left was the mitochondrial DNA because of the condition of the remains. It survives better and there's more copies of it, so that's how you end up being able to see it much more often than your nuclear DNA."

Dr. Ketchum is asked whether the team was careful to eliminate human contamination.

"Oh, absolutely. And the type of DNA we're using, it's easily done. We handled it like forensic samples. We did our blank controls and positive controls and, of course, I'm tested, since I handled it, so we're taking every precaution. I'm sure that everything we're testing has come from the samples we've received. "

Dr. Ketchum is asked about the most-received color of purported Sasquatch hair sample submitted.

"Reddish-brown."

Dr. Ketchum is asked, without violating any non-disclosure at the current time, if she believes there is a bigfoot.

"Oh, I can say yes. I'll answer that yes without any problems. Just have to wait for all the details."

Dr. Ketchum is asked whether she has been provided any evidence besides hair, like bone or feces, or blood.

"Ask Dave if he wants me to answer that..."

Dave Paulides replies, "Let's leave that for later."

The interviewer mentions that he heard on Coast to Coast that there was a bone sample. Dave Paulides confirms the truth of that, but declines to discuss it further.

Dr. Ketchum is asked if she believes that there are aliens.

"I have no idea. [laughs] I know somebody's seeing something in the sky... I've even seen something in the sky, but I have no idea what's flying it. It could be the military for all I know. I wouldn't touch that. [laughs] Remember, I'm still a scientist and I'm still really skeptical unless I can prove it myself. Nobody's given us any DNA from alleged aliens, so, can't go there."

Dr. Ketchum is asked if she would describe the difference between an "unknown" and a human hair.

" Well, I'm not a hair expert, although we have one in our group. Let's just say they're generally bigger, I give you that much. They're generally larger in diameter. They're more coarse."

Dave Paulides adds: "There are hair and fiber experts in the world that can tell the difference between every known hair that exists and these people can't get up on the stand and testify as an expert in court that, yes, this is positively a deer hair/raccon hair just by the physical mapeup of the hair."

Both are asked if a hair analyst could testify in court. Both Ketchum and Paulides answer in tandem, "Yes, absolutely."

Dr. Ketchum is asked about the difference in the medulla in the "unknown" hair and human hair.

"We'll have everything we need from our hair analyst who is a senior supervisor in a well-known forensic lab, whose doing all of the hair analysis. And he will give his opinions on this, and we're taking very good pictures. We'll have everything we need."

Dr. Ketchum is asked how often samples are contaminated by humans.

"We take precautions against it. We have ways of washing the samples... that will do away with anybosy that's handled anything. Bone samples, for instance, they basically get sandblasted to remove the whoel outer coating before we use the inner part. There's various ways to protect... we use every forensic tool available to us to keep any contamination from affecting anything."

Dr. Ketchum is asked wthether nuclear DNA is the next step, after mitochondrial DNA, in proof.

"You use everything at your disposal., of course. The only problem is you have to have high-yield samples to do the nuclear testing. They have to have more DNA in them., more cells avaiable to give up it's DNa. Everything we do is ampified DNA and it's based on a copy number, like I explained earlier. Meaning, how many numbers of set of DNA that was in the cells do you have left and nuclear is like 100x less than the mito, so you do have to have a lot better sample."

Dr. Ketchum is asked to explain how easy it is to recover DNA when people want to be tested.

"For human testing, all you have to do is take a Q-tip and run it inside your cheek and that's plenty of DNA to do anything you want with it. It's very simple. In fact, that's how paternity test are done. The kits are sent out with the swab and they just swab inside their cheeks, one on each side. But I doubt Sasquatch is going to come up and open his mouth and say, 'Here, you wanna take a vocal swab?'

Dr. Ketchum is asked if Sasquatch saliva DNA could be gotten from food.

"Oh, yeah, there a lot of literature and we've done it before too where you get something that's had saliva on it, and if you freeze the saliva item, you just take a damp swab and swab the saliva off of it. It's fun to do. [The food won't contaminate the sample] because it's a plant. It's a different extraction method to get their DNA. There's a famous forensics case in Canada where a burglar, and I believe he was also a murderer, decided he was hungry after he perpetrated the crime, and he got a piece of ham out of the refrefrigerator and took a big bite out of it and threw it on the floor, and they just froze the ham, swabbed the ham, and they got his profile. And we do the same things when we do forensics. We do whatever it takes. "

Dr. Ketchum if there is anything that would keep the evidence from coming out, when the study is complete.

"I certainly hope not. The one thing we're trying to overkill is so that peer-review will be passed. I know that we've done everything to make it to peer-review. The peer-review will happen. Except, unless we get biased people that refuse to pass it for selfish reasons. Or, we get some type of conspiracy theory going where it's prevented. I know the science is good. We've done peer-review papers before. It's not a big deal. Two of the PhD's on our team do peer-review, for crying out loud, so we know what we've done to overkill and make sure that everything is as it should be. So the science will pass. It's just getting past somebody who might have a preconceived notion... they can nitpick it, but they can't really nitpick it because we're covering all our bases. What it'll boil down to is just if they'll pass it from one to the next and drag it out. That's really the worst fear I have. I mean, they can't really completely turn it down.... But the first time we get turned down with any of them, we're just going to go to another one. We'll keep doing it until we get it done. We will, because it's there. And it will absolutely capable of being peer-reviewed because, like I say, I'm a veteran, and certainly the people on my team have done... you know, one of them has peer-reviewed for a government agency. And no research left that agency without the peer-review from him, so we know what we're doing here. And it's just a matter of the politics and, you know, hopefully is going to go smoothly and we'll get it out there more quickly, I hope, than what we're afraid of. But it will be [nothing but bias] if it doesn't peer-review."

Dr. Ketchum is asked if the findings will be published in a journal.

"That's peer-review, yes. It will go into a scientific journal and what each journal has, when it's a respected scientific journal is, they have some scientists on staff that read the papers and they go, 'Did they do this right? Did they take enough precautions?' and what have you. 'Oh yeah, they did fine. Let's publish it.' And I know we've done all those things. I'm sure of that. [laughs] I'm absolutely positive. In fact, we've done it more than any paper. We have done more than any paper I have ever read. "

Interviewer asks, "You have to, almost, don't you?"

Melba responds, "Yeah, we have to because it's the nature of the beast, if you'll pardon the pun. [laughs] But this is what I'm saying. I know what we've got is good, I know what we've got will pass the science."

Dr. Ketchum is asked if she will go "around them" if necessary.

"Well, that's what we'll do if we get any trouble out of the bigger publications, we'll go to a smaller one if we have to., until somebody slips up and is actually open-minded. And I've got the name of somebody who's open-minded with a good journal that will be our second step if the first one doesn't go through quickly. "

Dr. Ketchum is asked when she anticipates the results being released and whether she has been contact by any government officials.

"No. And I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, so I'm not really worried about that. I think if it comes out it comes out and, you know, we'll see what happens. Some people have voiced a concern about the peer-review process in this country and that's why we have multiple copies and we're ready to submit internationally to get things done how they should be done. This is just straight science. Everybody gets all excited about Bigfoot. To us, it's just science. It's another organism. You write it up, you do what you're supposed to do, and you say here it is. It's a big mystery, yes, but it's nothing that you wouldn't do every day in science."

Dr. Ketchum is asked about the best source of DNA from the body.

"Skin would actually be my preference because every cell has a nucleus. Only your white blood cells have nuclei. I would prefer skin any old day if I could get it. Blood is good though. Hair is my last choice because the roots are so tiny and you have to have the roots, you need a clump with roots. We do some that have almost no root, but it takes a lot of extra effort and it's not as good as if we were able to have several roots and be able to combine them from one sample."

Dr. Ketchum is asked if the hair had a medulla, could she get DNA from the medulla.

"We have not had good luck with hair shaft of any sorts from samples purported to be and I believe to be the real thing. We want tissue. We want the tissue on the roots. If you pull it out, you see the little bulb thing on the end? We want those, and preferably with a little tissue tag on them. That is your best source, as far as hair. If you don't have that, you might as well keep the hair for posterity's sake... There is some DNA in the actual follicle or the are that is ecompassing the root. If it's a shed hair, there isn't though and it's just not worth the try, believe me, and not for what we're doing on our project. We're using larger DNA samples."

Dr. Ketchum is asked if she had something to do with the Neaderthal DNA study.

"No, I had nothing to do with Neanderthal."

Dr. Ketchum is asked if that was proven recently, too.

"Yes. And that's one of the things that we've looked at, like everything else."

Dr. Ketchum is asked whether or not she has compared Neanderthal DNA to what she has.

"Of course we have. We've compared it to everything that we have. If we have access to it, it's been compared to it."

Dr. Ketchum is asked about apples that have had a bite taken out of them.

"But there's a problem with that. How many of them are actually cleaning the apples with a 1/10 Clorox solution and rinsing them in distilled water before they're stringing them up with their bare hands? Because you go to the store... how many people have picked up that apple before you picked it up to buy it? And did you wear gloves when you picked it up to buy it? So you can get contamination that way, and that's where, as a forensics scientist, I try to think outside the box and see where I might have a problem. "

Dr. Ketchum is asked a possible release date for the information.

"It's probably sometime in the spring, on a guess. It's going to depend on the peer-review. That's the one thing that's going to speed this up or slow it down because... we're working right now to get it out for peer-review. We're very close. We're writing right now, basically well on our way with it. It's just a matter of getting it all down on paper and then submitting it... The deed is done. We're still adding a few samples along when we can just to... the more the merrier. Because now we can do them a lot quicker now that we've made the basic research. [People will have] about one month [to continue to submit samples]. Tissue. I really appreciate blood or tissue. Hair is the least of them."