Skeptic Blog dissect the Erickson Project's Bigfoot Facts, both pretend like they know what they're talking about


In August, we gave Matt Moneymaker a chance to fire back at a skeptic about his answer regarding the existence of Bigfoot. Click here if you haven't read Matt Moneymaker's rebuttal.

At Bigfoot Evidence, we try to give everyone a fair shake, even if we disagree. We feel that our readers can learn from skeptics and vice versa. Hopefully this will encourage better or more intelligent discussions regarding the existence of a North American ape.

If large hairy creatures like bears can survive this long in North America, then it's entirely possible that large primates can survive right? Some believe our first focus should be on the possibility of their survival rather than trying to find physical evidence. Focusing on this possibility will encourage more scientists to get involve in the research they say.

Perhaps this is why Dr. Jeff Meldrum has never said he believes in Bigfoot. He has always said that he believes in the probability of Bigfoot.

Jeff Meldrum talks about the probability of a Bigfoot existing and why he is committed to researching this cryptid.

If large primates do exist in North American, then where are the bones? That's a great question and one I'm not sure I know the real answer to. Some Bigfoot researchers will answer that question this way: "That's because soil in certain parts of North America's forests are highly acidic and the bones disintegrate into the ground."

That answer is good enough right? Maybe for some. But you're dreaming if you think skeptics are buying that.

Here, we're going to show you a skeptic's response to claims made by Bigfoot researchers such as this FAQ from the Erickson Project page.

Read below from www.skepticblog.org:

I saw a tweet the other day from our compadre in skepticism who specializes in monsters, Blake Smith of Monster Talk, that alerted me to the existence of The Erickson Project. It’s a sasquatch hunting project founded by a gent by the name of Adrian Erickson. On his web site, I found an FAQ page about sasquatch. The answers to the questions irked me a bit, and I felt they needed a bit of science-based commentary.

To me, it seems like it should be hard to authoritatively answer questions about a cryptid that is only hypothesized to exist (and then only by the fringe of the fringe), and of which there are no specimens; indeed no proof that it exists at all. But The Erickson Project found it quite easy. Here are their FAQs and the answers they offer:
Question: Why have there not been sasquatch bodies or bones discovered?
Answer: For the same reason no one discovers the body or bones of most predators that have died of natural causes. When ill or nearing death they hole up in very secluded areas, and die there. Their carcass is eaten by other predators and the remaining bones are consumed by porcupines and other rodents. 
Skeptic: This is not true. There is no example, that I know of, of an extant animal whose remains have not been discovered in the wild. Corpses of all large land animals in North America are found frequently. Carcasses of all North American bears, mountain lions, and wild canids are found all the time, and who met their ends without humans present. Their ancestors are also known by extensive examples in the fossil record. The true expectation is that if the animal did exist, its remains would have been found many times by humans.
Question: How many sasquatch exist in North America?
Answer: Extremely difficult to quantify, sightings indicate sporadic populations in nearly all heavily wooded areas of Canada and the U.S. The sasquatch is known to occupy a range larger than that of the black bear. Our estimate is a minimum of 4000, and likely many more.
Skeptic: I do not buy that this estimate was arrived at by actually counting sasquatch, or by any other method that might give us a good count. Instead, I believe it is the result of backwards reasoning. There are science-based estimates of how many individuals you’d need for a viable breeding population. Dr. Jeff Meldrum, the closest we have to a science-based sasquatch researcher, estimates 500-750 individuals; and according to famed cryptozoologist Loren Coleman, other researchers and groups put the number somewhere in four figures. 4000 is a pretty good median of these estimates. The Erickson Project is not answering the question that was asked — how many sasquatch are there — they are answering how many they think there would have to be if it did exist. This is like me saying I would have to weigh 1 ounce in order to fly holding two eagle feathers. It doesn’t make it so.
Question: Do they have their own language?
Answer: Yes, we believe they do. Our own experiences and those of others suggest they have language.
Skeptic: Certainly not unprecedented in nature. A number of species use forms of communication. Whales vocalize, insects use scents, other animals use precocious displays of colors or feathers. We know this because it’s been observed, documented, studied, reproduced, to such a degree that it is widely considered a fact of zoology. 
Sasquatch language, on the other hand, has only the “belief” of believers. What few recordings exist are poorly documented anecdotes. They are inconsistent with one another, and better represent the variances expected among unrelated recordings than they do the complexities of language.
Question: Why has no sasquatch been trapped or shot?
Answer: The sasquatch is an extremely cunning and elusive creature.
Skeptic: If the lack of evidence equals evidence that it is cunning and elusive, then Sauron is similarly cunning, elusive, and extant. Unfortunately, the scientific method does not permit us to go from “We haven’t found a sasquatch” to “Therefore they exist, and have the property of elusiveness.”
Answer: …Their senses are beyond human, especially their incredible night vision.
Skeptic: How was this established without a specimen to examine? This cannot be logically asserted, unless they are simply designing an imaginary creature based on their own creativity. This trait is not an observation, it is merely what seems consistent with the believers’ impression of sasquatch.
Answer: …In human populated areas they operate almost strictly nocturnally.
Skeptic: They do? Not a single more creature has been documented to exist at night than has been documented during the day. I do not know these researchers’ opinion on the Patterson-Gimlin film, widely considered by many Bigfoot enthusiasts to be the best evidence, but it was shot during the day. This is a poorly supported supposition.
Answer: …We know of two sasquatch that were mistakenly shot by hunters decades ago. In both cases, upon discovery, the men ran off, afraid to tell anyone until many years later.
Skeptic: These researchers should know better than to accept such stories as if they constitute evidence. I can only repeat the old axiom “That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
Question: How tall are they?
Answer: Our experience and those of other reports indicate a mature male ranges from seven to over nine feet tall. Females average from six to seven and a half feet tall, however it is the muscle bulk of the sasquatch that is so impressive.
Skeptic: I am left to wonder what method was used to sex and measure these specimens that were neither captured nor photographed. How many specimens were needed to establish these averages? These numbers may well represent good averages of anecdotal reports, but anecdotes are not data, and responsible researchers should not present them as such.
Question: Why have they never officially been studied by scientists?
Answer: Scientists in general are not risk-takers. Because a sasquatch is so much like a human they can be hoaxed. Scientists are afraid to make a mistake. As a result it has been safer for most of them to steer clear of the phenomenon.
Skeptic: It is hardly possible to be more wrong about scientists than this. Every professional researcher I know would want nothing more than to find something new and exciting. “Steering clear” of new discoveries is a good way for a scientist to lose his job; not to keep it. Scientists are not employed in the hope that they will discover nothing. A better reason that so few scientists have dedicated time to sasquatch research is that there is no good evidence that the creature exists; thus it would be a waste of resources that could be better applied to fields more likely to produce results.
There is a lot of poor evidence that sasquatch exists; but lots of poor evidence does not aggregate into good evidence. Instead, mounds of bad evidence aggregate into a pretty strong indicator that the null hypothesis is true. As I often say: You can stack cowpies as high as you want; they won’t turn into a bar of gold.
So I say, strike 6 out of 6. I’m not hostile to sasquatch research, but I am hostile toward the use of bad science to beguile the innocent into accepting your point of view. I invite the members of The Erickson Project to take another pass at answering these questions, and this time, tell us what we actually know; or if they prefer to tell us what they believe or what their hunch is, within the context of no supporting evidence, to make that clear.

At the end of his article, the skeptic pats himself on the back and gives himself an A+ for effort.


Comments

  1. skeptics are correct to point out that many amateur cryptozoologists do not have a sound understanding of what constitutes "science." i'm not pointing fingers, but this kind of argument isn't going to cut it.

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  2. This guy is a real jerk! Bigfoot researchers are out there honestly trying to discover something unknown to scientists who refuse to look for themselves. Skeptics who get on shows or have their own websites on the other hand are self-promoting, egotistical, self-absorbed, condescending, self-righteous, ego-maniacs that just want to prove to the world that they are right and everyone else it wrong. They enjoy making fun of and insulting people they think are crazy, liars, are having mass hallucinations or are not smart enough to know a bear when they see one. These guys were probably bullies in elementary and high school. By the way mass hallucinations are impossible. People would have to be psychically linked to share the same hallucination and psychic powers are impossible to skeptics.

    The Erikson guys are probably talking from a point of view that shows they really do have videos and DNA evidence, etc. and are truly just waiting for the DNA report to be released. I would suggest that skeptics keep their damn mouths shut until after the DNA report is either released or the scientist running it states that the study has been discontinued. This skeptic is making a big deal out of something that he doesn’t have the inside information about. I would suggest that he go to see Erikson in person, sign an NDA and see the video’s for himself or better yet spend some time on the ranch with the habitualized bigfoots and see them for himself.

    It doesn’t matter what the skeptics opinions are because they are speaking from a point of ignorance. They don’t do detailed research, they make presumptions without checking the facts and outright ignore facts and evidence that disagree with their beliefs on the subject. They discount compelling eye witness testimony of events that are clearly stated as an upright walking created (that I would describe as similar to a Wookie from Star Wars) and say well obviously they are wrong and it had to be a bear on its hind legs or they are outright lying and are hoaxers.

    As far as the bodies never being found, I saw a video listed on this site where they placed a dear out in the forest and photographed it using time-lapse photography. It was just a pile of bones in 7 days flat. No wonder no bodies have been found.

    You know scientists refused to believe that the platypus was a real creature for quite a long time. Even when presented with actual specimens, they said they are fakes and hoaxes, because obviously there is no such creature.

    Casts of Bigfoot tracks are scientific evidence just as foot prints are used to convict criminals (A Colenel in the Canadian Forces name David Russell Williams was convicted in part because of boot prints of his army boots left at the scene of one of the murder victims). Casts are not bad evidence as stated in the original article. Bigfoot researchers collect them honesty. There are far too many, some found in remote areas to far out for some hoaxer to leave them where a research just happens to discover them, some with extreme detail like dermal ridges that makes it impossible to claim they are all hoaxes. Something had to leave them and since most are not hoaxes and are not bear tracks. That means these really are foot prints of a real animal. If there wasn’t something to this myth than the myth would not exist in the first place.

    This skeptic claims scientists are open about research. I once met a Paleontologist who specialized in dinosaur footprints and suggested he look into Bigfoot foot print casts and tracks. He didn’t want too because he was afraid of ruining his reputation, especially because he was just starting his career.

    I can understand why Bigfoot try to avoid humans, we typically lash out at anything that surprises and scares us. There is a story about the first time a European settle saw a moose. Apparently he shot it out of fear and then went and told people he shot and killed the devil! If people throughout history treated the Bigfoots this way, than that would explain why they are so afraid of us.

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  3. The guy is an idiot. You can tell by his answers that he has never been in the field. I am a researcher myself. I don't go out to prove it to the world. I could care less if the rest of the world knows about them. In fact, I think they are more protected with the world NOT knowing about them, and believing what this guy believes. I have had two sightings. I think they are getting to know me. I am out there for me, I want to meet them. As far as I'm concerned, this guy is content being an idiot....we should let him!

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  4. The skeptic comments are justified. Any venture that purports to be an investigation or scientific (which I question, here), needs to be open to criticism and to address it. As I've said, if cryptozoologists ever want to shed the label of "pseudoscience" for their field, and be taken AT ALL seriously, they have to raise the bar.

    These so called "facts" about an organism are giant leaps of logic. I get the sense that these researchers are so wrapped up in their wishes and beliefs that they have concocted an entire ecological fantasy of an animal that has not been established to even exist. Once invested so heavily, emotionally, intellectually and perhaps financially, they can't just give that up. So the story become more elaborate.

    What the harm? Well, they get media attention and air time on TV. Harm occurs when people who may not be able to tell reliable knowledge from an opinion or story are led to believe there is some basis for these claims. If you don't think that's dangerous, remember that America went to war and many died because too many of the citizens were so easily duped. I apologize for making this extreme comparison but it is another example of where we must question the variety of assumptions we are being fed on a daily basis- not to deny them, but to ask, "What is the basis for such a claim?" Is it warranted?

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  5. Hmm. Going around calling people "jerks" and "idiots". Not very helpful or professional. Address the issue, not call people names.

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  6. I second idoubtit here, the skeptic is not being hostile to "bigfooters" he is simply asserting that if one is to prove . Besides other assumptions made by the Erikson Project on hypothetical Bigfoot biology with no specimens to examine, one point in particular irks me: the rationalization of Bigfoot's elusiveness on their spectacular night vision. The point I feel necessary to make is simply that assuming a Bigfoot does exist, it would most likely be some sort of primate (if so obviously an ape) and very few "advanced" primates actually have night vision/are nocturnal (this is excluding prosimians, the group including lemurs, lorises, pottos, and galagos; and tarsiers several of which have night vision) in fact out of the remaining primates (Old World and New World monkeys, and the Lesser and Greater Apes) only one is actually nocturnal: the Owl Monkey of South America. No apes (Lesser or Greater) are nocturnal/have night vision (this doesn't mean none are active at night gorillas build nests at night, humans, etc; but it means that none have actual night vision the claim made here) so if the Bigfoot was to evolve from any sort of ape species (at least any extant apes) there would be no night vision to draw from (since evolution only draws from traits already present in the gene pool that natural selection [and other selection mechanisms] "select" [not actually an intelligent act of selecting, just the organisms and traits that survive to pass on genes] from). New traits can't be created out of nothing (and the mutations to reach a pure reversal of diurnal vision to night vision would be extremely unlikely, not impossible just highly unlikely) so vis-a-vis Bigfoot more than likely (if real at all) would not have night vision. See at least some semblance of scientific knowledge applied to the idea of Bigfoot (although I believe it is unlikely Bigfoot exists, I wish it as well as several other cryptids did, I know it more than likely doesn't), it isn't hard and is certainly better than making baseless claims (like on "Finding Bigfoot": "The Bigfoot communicate in knocks to keep track of each other," "although we didn't see any Bigfoot here while we were here, it does not mean there aren't any in the area [true enough, the possibility exists], there are Bigfoot in Kentucky [where did this claim's basis come from?]," among others made by Squatchers). Btw see my response to another posting here where a Squatcher attempts to discredit another skeptic's arguments (under "Skeptics say only White People and Christians can see Bigfoot").
    Thanks,
    Hunter

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  7. I fail to see any ingenuity or merit in the article, short of copy and paste how easy is a piece like that to write, bigfoot does not exist ergo all explanations that address a physical entity are void, nice going perhaps he would like to point out water is wet as well.
    The point is advances are only made by accepting something could be possible, it is the maybes in this world that have sometimes led to the impossible.

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  8. Everything the skeptic writes is accurate.

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  9. Calling someone an idiot, jerk, or ignorant, is a tool used by the uneducated when they have no scientific ground to stand on.

    ReplyDelete

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