Is the Collection of a Wood Ape Specimen Necessary?


Editor's Note: This is a guest post by Mike Mayes, a Bigfoot enthusiast. You can check out his blog, www.texascryptidhunter.blogspot.com.

Should a wood ape specimen be collected in order to prove the existence of the species to science?

This question elicits passion like no other when it comes to the subject of the sasquatch. It is the equivalent of topics like gun control, abortion and same sex marriage in the political arena. Very few are ambivalent about the issue. Opinions are strong and emotions run deep when it comes to this particular subject. Often, the debate degenerates into name-calling and boorish behavior. This is unfortunate, as I can understand points on both sides of the issue.

I came to the conclusion a while back that the taking of a specimen was absolutely necessary. What I would like to do now is take you through the process that led me to that conclusion and why I believe it must happen if we are going to save the species. I don’t presume to speak for anyone else. The thoughts presented here are mine and mine alone. There are many who will agree with my position and many who will not. My intention is not to convince anyone to “come around” to my way of thinking though, I admit, it would make my life easier if some did. Instead, I merely want to present my thoughts in a logical manner so that others can see this is not a conclusion I came to lightly.


Science demands a specimen. It is really just that simple. In order for the species to be officially recognized, someone is going to have to bring in one of these animals. I realize there have been a few instances where science has recognized the existence of a new species based on photos or video but these cases are few and far between. They are clearly the exception to the rule. In order to prove the existence of something as fantastic as the North American wood ape, it is going to take a body. Realistically, the sasquatch is on a par with unicorns, dragons and centaurs in the eyes of mainstream science. I held out hope for a very long time that good video and/or still photos would be enough but have come to believe that is not the case. First, these animals have proven incredibly elusive and sightings, on the rare occasions that they do occur, typically are so fleeting that even if a witness is holding a camera they don’t have time to raise it and get a good photo. Game cameras may ultimately get a photo but will it be good enough? Doubtful. The NAWAC invested tens of thousands of dollars in the best game cameras commercially available and kept them deployed continuously for the better part of a decade. While a handful of intriguing images were captured, nothing definitive was obtained. I have come to believe that these animals avoid game cameras. I do not believe they know what they are but think, like alpha coyotes, cougars and other animals, they are extremely in tune with their environment and realize that these cameras are foreign objects. They may even associate them with humans. If so, they probably associate these odd boxes with potential danger. The final nail in the “video/photographs should be good enough” argument is that we actually already have great evidence of this nature and it hasn’t been enough. The chances of capturing video any clearer than that shot by Roger Patterson, Paul Freeman or Harlan Ford are extremely slim. If these excellent pieces of footage aren’t enough to convince mainstream scientists to list the species then, in my opinion, none ever will be good enough.


Again, science demands a specimen because, without a holotype, mistakes can occur and false assumptions can be made. Take, for example, the recent discovery of a new rodent in Sulawesi. It has turned out to be quite unique as, unlike over 2,000 other known species of rodents, the Paucidentomys vermidax lacks cheek teeth. This makes it impossible for this animal to gnaw on its food. This begs the question, what is this rodent subsisting on if it can’t gnaw on nuts and seeds? Scientists examined the contents of a single specimen to find that the Paucidentomys vermidax consumes only earthworms. This is crucial information that could never have been deduced from photographs only. If this rodent turns out to be critically endangered, and conservation intervention is necessary, it is vital that habitat be protected, not just for it, but for what is eats as well. A photo alone would not have yielded this information. Should it ever come to that, well intentioned efforts to protect and preserve this species might not have worked if officials had merely assumed this animal had a diet similar to other rodents. The taking of a single specimen yielded data that will be invaluable to the preservation of the entire species.

Opponents of taking a wood ape specimen sometimes recognize that photographic/video evidence won’t be enough to get the animals documented and, instead, turn their hopes to DNA. Certainly, they argue, a DNA sample, obtained via non-lethal means, would do the trick. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that to be the case either. Forget for a moment the difficulties in collecting such a sample and think about how DNA testing works. DNA is sequenced and then compared to a database of known DNA sequences. Simply put, if there is no match to a known species, and there is no type specimen from whence the anomalous DNA was taken, there is no documentation or recognition. The sample might be cataloged as “unknown,” something that has, I believe, happened before, or an assumption is made that the sample has somehow become contaminated and is, therefore, of no scientific value. Either way, a new species will not be recognized. Evidence of this can be found here. This article, while focusing mainly on herpetology, has obvious applications to the question of whether or not it is necessary to take a wood ape specimen. Below is an excerpt from the linked article:

“Information gathering in science is a careful and deliberate process, and it requires the best effort possible to produce a transparent chain of evidence based on reproducible methods. Three lines of evidence are generally accepted for the proposal and testing of taxonomic hypotheses. First, novel evidence is obtained through field and laboratory work, involving samples (e.g., whole specimens, animal parts, tissue samples) from known phenotypes collected in nature, with precisely known provenance, and associated with the obligatory documentation. These samples are deposited in institutions where their long-term curation makes them accessible to other researchers for subsequent hypothesis testing (see Cotterill 1997 on the value of biological collections).

Second, evidence should be sourced from existing samples in museum collections or from published information (e.g., GenBank), both of which are ultimately obtained as described above.

One or (typically) both of these lines of evidence should be required for taxonomic investigations. They act as a base for further research, so that later work does not have to begin the evidence-collection process de novo. For example, storage of sequence data in GenBank makes these data readily available online. If no records from publicly accessible genetic databases, backed by suitable voucher specimens, are listed in support of a taxonomic decision alleged to have been derived from DNA sequence data, then the decision should be rejected.”

Clearly, this article is saying that taxonomic decisions founded on DNA alone are simply not acceptable. This confirms, in my mind, that classifying something as unprecedented as a New World ape is going to take much more than photographs, video footage, or DNA extracted from questionable hair and/or scat samples. While all of these things can serve as supporting evidence, they can never adequately take the place of a type specimen.

At this point, many may question the need to officially document the wood ape at all. Why not just leave them alone? While I understand this sentiment, this is a recipe for extinction. Why? Habitat destruction. If the North American wood ape exists, then it is surely a rare animal. If we look at other primates, especially the great apes, it would seem safe to assume that wood apes are slow growing and have low reproductive rates. A rare animal that is slow to grow up and reproduce and that can only exist in the ever dwindling heavily forested remote areas of North America is going to be in trouble very soon if deforestation and development do not slow. One simply cannot overstate the affect deforestation is having on the planet’s wildlife. It is one of, if not the, greatest drivers behind biodiversity loss. Once, almost half the continental Unites States and three-fourths of Canada were covered in forests. That is no longer the case. Take a look at the graphic below. It illustrates quite clearly what happened to North American forests between 1620 and 1920.


90% of the virgin forest that once covered the lower 48 states has been cut and isn’t coming back. This habitat has been lost forever. About 80% of the forest that remains is on public land. National forests, state forests, wilderness areas, state parks, national parks, etc. contain much of what is left of our forests. Many would take comfort in this fact but understand that this does not mean that these wooded areas are safe. For example, approximately 80% of the forestland in the Pacific Northwest, the “holy land” of bigfoot research, is slated to be logged at some point in the future. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not completely anti-logging. Much of it is necessary and it is being done in a much more responsible manner than it was in the past. Having said that, there can be little argument that second growth forests differ greatly in make-up from the old growth forests they replace. Also, it takes up to 100 years for a replanted forest to mature. Any species affected negatively by the original cutting of an old growth forest is not going to still be around 100 years later. They are going to be gone. A great example of this is how the logging of what became known as the “Singer Tract” in Louisiana likely was the final nail in the coffin of the Ivory-billed woodpecker.

In my opinion, the wood ape has little to fear from hunters. If it did, a specimen would have been obtained years ago. Rather, the greatest threat to this species is loss of habitat. These animals require vast amounts of heavily forested land that is isolated and remote. Such areas are getting more and more difficult to find. Should these areas disappear, the wood ape, too, will disappear. In order to protect their habitat we must first prove to scientists and government officials that these animals are real. The government will simply not create protected areas that are off limits to logging and development for a mythical animal. It just won’t happen. Bringing in a specimen is the only way to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the wood ape is a flesh and blood animal. I support the taking of one, maybe two, of these animals in order to save the entire species.

As I stated before, I can understand why, on an emotional level, many would be against taking a specimen. Logically, however, I just don’t see how anyone that says they care about the future of this species can make a cogent argument against the necessity of doing so. Labeling those of us who take this position as blood-thirsty murderers is not only mean-spirited but completely off base. Not one person that I know who shares my point of view on this matter wants to take a wood ape as a trophy. They, like me, want to save them. In addition, those that argue that the taking of a specimen will somehow accelerate the extinction timetable need to realize that if the species is that depleted it is already too late.

Nothing would please me more than if someone stumbled across a wood ape body while out hiking in the woods. Ideally, this ape would have lived to a ripe old age before succumbing to natural causes. That way science would have what it needs and no animal would have died before its time. The chances of this happening, while not impossible, are practically nil. I live in the real world and believe if we wait for this ideal scenario to occur we will lose our opportunity to save this species. I believe strongly that attempting to collect a specimen is the responsible thing to do.

It is the only way.

Comments

  1. This article is just a reflection of Mike's self serving quest to hunt for a body. I have much more respect for poachers who kill elephants to trade tusks; atleast their agenda isn't masked with depricatied red herrings.

    You think its safe to assume that IF one you substitute gym teachers murder a BF in Honobia the beltway bureaucrat would authorize legislation to protect forests in the Pacific North West? Wow....Charles Branson was right when he told me its a crime to let suckers like you keep their money.

    Its obvious by the constant insisting on calling a BF a "wood ape" that you yearn to display a sense of importance. Sorry, your justification falls short, maybe you have convinced yourself but
    its obvious for everyone else in the community of your true agenda.
    Ps,
    Don't fall off the roof,
    You might break a leg

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    Replies
    1. I tend to agree with most of what 1:27 has to say. I'm not sure I quality as a "tree hugging hippy." Here in the Pacific Northwest we appreciate the vast forested lands but also respect the economic input of the logging industry. In fairness, we should have a graphic showing deforestation from, perhaps, 1980 to 2010. You might be surprised. I instantly am amused at the individuals and groups who insist on calling this animal a "wood ape." Really? I'm old school and I think "sasquatch" is fine. Same as ordering a coffee- I don't want to learn a foreign language just to get a cup.

      EWA

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    2. Right on, 1:27. This has not been thought through beyond their obscene wishes to kill something astonishing. "Protection" is impossible and unnecessary.

      Delete
    3. Exactly, this article is literally shoot first ask questions later, then fill in the blanks to make the ends justify the means. Stop masquerading as scientists attempting to help an endangered species; before another one you idiots shoots up another one of Bransons vehicles.. If one of these Bozos actually kills a "wood ape" all it proves to the Govt is the existence of exactly 1 "wood ape" nothing more. The Nawapc gets all the attention and pat on their backs they long for. But for all intense purposes any subsquent response will most likely not be in the best interest of the species, not including the inspiration of copycat big game hunters seeking infammy. Mike just come clean your quest is for personal gratification, get that trophy thats alluded you since little league, who gives a fuck if you kill the last dominant male of a extremely limited endangered reclusive Bf , opps I mean wood apes.

      Delete
  2. It is the only way but since bigfoot doesn't exist bigfooters have a problem here.

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  3. Is a specimen collection necessary? YES!!!!! Trying to obtain any other type of "evidence" to prove the existence of bigfoot is a waste of time.

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  4. The short answer is "Yes".

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  5. Funny, you guys who use the term "wood ape" haven't figured out that nobody listens to your argument. Once you use that term everyone assumes you're an idiot.

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  6. The map is a little too extreme to be bleevable

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  7. This map is ALL wrong!. It give the impression that the U.S. is mostly dis-forested! That's not true. 70% of the lands are still forested and growing. I can ride my horse for 30-60 miles in any direction in my state without seeing many houses or roads. Yet I live in a very populated state, but almost all that population is in Cities or by the Ocean. Believe me, if you got lost in these woods, your in a world of hurt!

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  8. " These animals require vast amounts of heavily forested land that is isolated and remote. Such areas are getting more and more difficult to find."
    This seems to be the crux of the killers' arguments, but both statements are demonstrably false. Even the BFRO knows that much. Also, learn some grammar.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not in school anymore, so i's don't give a S... about grammar, especially on this site. The U.S. is still heavily forested, but you have to get off your butt and drive out to the country to see the REAL WOODS!

      Delete
  9. Sasquatchery...

    The North American Aboriginal Ancient Peoples, are People not "wood apes".

    For over a decade I have enabled, supported and networked, discreetly with "repeat visitation and quasi habituation" situations in North America. We work as advocates for the eventual recognition, protection, and the right of ingress and egress of the Sasquatch Peoples, within the judicial system.

    One of my most compelling sightings was thoroughly investigated by Daryl Colyer of the TBRC, now with the NAWAC.

    We have had multiple meetings with Alton Higgins, submitted scat evidence, sighting reports, imagery, even arranged private meetings with Higgins, Meldrum, et al, with multiple habituators from Oklahoma, and Mississippi at a TBRC conference.

    A few years ago at lunch in OKC, Alton sat across the table in the presence of witnesses and proclaimed "the Texas Department of Wildlife, will accept compelling imagery of Sasquatch's existence, or imagery of an upright bi-pedal individual accomplishing feats of strength or endurance beyond the range of human ability" as evidence sufficient to recognize and protect Sasquatch from hunting and harassment in the state of Texas. Those videos exist and are compiled in a growing compendium of evidence, substantiating language, culture, artistic expression, and most significantly hybridization, traits consistent with the definition of humanity.

    Most Native Americans, recognize the Sasquatch Peoples as a primitive tribe, worthy of protection and recognition. The Sasquatch Peoples are certainly of the genus Homo. There is no statute of limitations on homicide. The argument for a voucher specimen or two is barbaric, and morally bankrupt, in my humble opinion.

    live and let live...

    Steve Summar

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    Replies
    1. Thank you, and bravo.

      Delete
    2. Steve. You're a good man and a very smart one. Saddens me to have left the group so suddenly. Wish you all the best and you know where I am if you need me. M

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    3. Sasquatch Peoples? Primitive Tribe? Ancient Peoples? Oh my goodness. Do you have any real idea what you are talking about? If you know so much about them, and are so certain of your beliefs, why haven't you proved anything yet?

      Delete
  10. I'm not sure who this Mike guy is but he's a freakin' genius. No more hanging out in the cesspool for me. I'm off the join the NAWAC!

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  11. Oddly enough he cites a map of North American forests. It is missing its legend (on purpose I assume) . It could have read 'Number of Intelligent People in American Forests'. In searching for the source of that image, I discovered it was data specifically regarding Old Growth forests. The surrounding text discussed that Second Growth forests take 100+ years to develop comparable size and that the ecosystem is not the same. This map is being used by Global Warming (strike that 'Change') lecturers and pundits in the same manner it is being used in this instance. As false eye candy.

    It has nothing to do with habitat lost. Sasquatch have shown great adaptability to numerous areas; whether it be populated or even desert.

    I assume the author must be in favor of action taken by the Army in the 1870's and 1880's against Native Americans. If they lived purely in the woods, would you call them 'wood savages' to justify your agenda?

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  12. It's not necessary at all for you believers. Endless made up stories, mistaken ID, and especially blurry photos are all the proof you idiots need.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How's the anal cream working out for you Danny Boy?

      Delete
    2. I still have one brown eye in the middle :(

      Oh well, I will try some straight bleach next.

      DC

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    3. I KNOW THAT'S RIGHT!!!

      Delete
  13. Fascinating how many of you bash people that are actually trying to prove this thing exists. Must be hard on you folks to have your basement dwelling social clubs disrupted by real evidence rather than the acid laced stories of maracca playing forest people braiding their friends' hair while they sing to you telepathically.

    I don't want to shoot one of the things either, but even a moron should be able to see that while these animals can protect themselves, they can't protect their habitat. I've seen logging and I understand how a functional ecosystem works. Knowing that, I say, "Cap that mother!" It will help countless species to preserve vast amounts of land. One dang big monkey won't wipe them out and if it does, they were doomed anyway.

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    1. This line of thinking relies on the false assumption the almighty American dollar would stop to let the Sasquatch cross the street.

      Delete
  14. If someone wants a specimen of "wood ape" then I say we need a specimen of "fucking idiot who uses the term wood ape."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You wanna go in the garage and practice Karate???
      Yup

      Delete
  15. Since I'm a long time old hunter, and have hunted all over the world, Believe me, Big foot are very safe! No average-excellent hunter will be able to shoot one.

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  16. I keep seeing a lot of people saying "wood ape" is stupid. I tend to disagree for a couple of reasons. 1) Bigfoot was an individual written about in an article. 2) That term is older than "bigfoot". I've talked to old timers that called it that long before they knew what it was. 3) Sasquatch is just a white guy's bastardized form of a native word. 4) Wood ape is at least descriptive of the nature of the animal. It just makes more sense and isn't geared toward sensationalism.

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  17. Bust the hell out of a squatch and maybe even a dogman. We will need more then one body though. Im tired of all the full of shit bigfoot researchers out there (and there bullshit theories). Put one or two on a slab so that we can see what we are dealing with!

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  18. Love the faggoty arm chair research pussies crying about this.
    Hahaha.
    What a bunch of douche bags.
    Soon there world of mystery will end when a real wood ape is put on a slab!

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  19. I see merit on both sides of the argument, both in what you want to call it, and how to protect it. I have seen them, and from what I have seen, they are not people, they are some kind of animal. But more respect for an elephant poacher? Really? I somehow miss the connection. We all except the fact elephants exist, are endangered, and in need of our protection. But these bigfeets, sasquatches or whatever they are ("wood apes" does seem appropriate at this stage, I must admit) have not been recognized as an actual species. I somehow must conclude such a statement stems from emotion, and not reality, otherwise you would not feel the need to elaborate on who you have respect for, since no one knows who you are, nor does anyone really care. But such an emotional response does indicate you have some sort of affinity for this creature, and would like to see them protected. I believe this is an area of common ground between the two sides of this issue. Everyone seems to want what is best for theses creatures. Have they been proven to be apes? No. Have they been proven to be people? No. So allow me to propose this challenge both sides of this debate to bring forth whatever evidence you may have, or obtain, that conclusively proves the existence of, and classification of this species. If you are a "habituator", and do not produce conclusive evidence of their existence to the scientific community, then you are an accessory to the very crime which you accuse others of. You cannot have it both ways. If you can prove it, do so. Conversely, if an individual from the "specimen collection" side of the fence has, or obtains conclusive evidence of their existence to the scientific community, please produce it. Both sides now have a challenge, but either way, the apes win. There, I said it. I believe they are apes. What other conclusion can I draw from the evidence I have seen thus far? The race is on. The world awaits an answer.

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  20. Emotions have no place in Science. Shoot it, study it, protect it and move on.

    ReplyDelete
  21. This Mike Mayes guy seems to be on the ball. I don't understand some of the comments here and why they are so negative. Certainly the people who think Big Foot is a human are joking, right? Pretty funny, you had me going there for a minute. You Big Foot people are quite the jokers. But really, why the heartburn over shooting this animal? There must be more than one of them. I say BRAVO to Mike Mayes and the NAWAC for telling it like it is. Such honesty and bravery are rare these days.

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  22. IMO, the predicate that science demands a body, save them from extinction, habitat loss and even the term Wood Ape are red herring(s) designed to shroud an agenda driven solely by ego and financial gain.

    First, the term Wood Ape appears to be the province of NAWAC/TBRC as I have found no scientific material that applies such a description to a specific fauna.

    Science does not demand a body as science does not care about the existence of UHS/BF. Aside from the bounty offered by a trust fund baby, or the money offered by a promoter, name the scientific organization that has publicly stated it is their policy to require a body.

    Those that espouse such a mantra are simply manufacturing a position out of whole cloth, designed to serve as cover for their real objectives.

    Save them from extinction?

    What credible evidence do groups, such as NAWAC have as to what actual population numbers might be? They've published none because, they would then have furnish such evidence and the fact there is none, keeping them silent on such.

    Same (as above) for the alleged habitat loss. Also, as NAWAC has (first) postulated these notions, it is incumbent upon THEM to furnish the evidence thereof.

    Therefore, with all of NAWAC's predicates being unsubstantiated, what are their true motives?

    The money? Do they have a formal policy statement designating any renumeration recieved from the successful attainment of a body will go into a trust fund or other such legal instrument with the intent to provide solely for the health, welfare and support of their Wood Apes? Insert the sound of crickets here.

    Ego? A simple read of the publications by NAWAC members makes that a relatively easy conclusion.

    Also, some of the NAWAC members that are also members of academia would likely benefit from writing about the topic. remember, publish or perish is the mantra of those people.

    So, years of camera traps and ~$50K sunk into the project w/o anything tangible to show for it, probably elicited an edict from the money brokers to get something tangible or the payola train is stopping. That (along with the above) is IMO why the change in policy to pro-kill.

    Remember, Benjamin Franklin is almost always somewhere in the mix.

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    Replies
    1. On the take? Wally Hersom is the only moneybags tossing cash around these days. He unloaded over half a million dollars of pocket change on Melba's toast.

      Are you saying Wally is funding the NAWAC? If so, 50 grand is nothing to him. Why would he stop now?

      No, the money is either coming from the mafia, or the CIA. Both are one in the same, btw. But I bet you already knew that.

      And I agree, it wouldn't surprise me to find out the CIA has offered the NAWAC, as well as other groups, a reward of at least 1 billion dollars to blow the lid off this Bigfoot mystery.

      I just saw where a guy said the government has several Bigfoots in a freezer. This makes sense to me. Of course they do. How else do they know what they look like? I think they are real, I guess you do too, John, or else you wouldn't be reading on websites like this.

      I have tried to go out and look for the Bigfoot, my kids love it. I will take a photo when I see it, and then I will have proof. And I will have1 billion dollars from the government. I need some of this money to remove the implant.

      But I am scared if I do that, I might not have the ability to do the mindspeak thing with them. I think I can do that. I want to try, at least.

      I tried to leave out peanut butter for them once, but when I found the jar the next day, it smelled like racoon poop. I think they ate the peanut butter and then put poop in the jar.

      I think they're cannot be too many of them left, or else they would be easier to find. I think we should try to save them somehow. If not save them, then help them to thrive.

      I like you John, we should hang out sometime. You can call me anything but not late for dinner. Haha ,

      Delete
  23. Many groups such as NAWAC (and, they by no means have a codlock on it) start with a foregone conclusion ( i.e., kill a BF) and then try to make "facts" contort to their dogma. Heck, preachers and politicians do it every day.

    NAWAC's two basic justifications for their game are "to save them from extinction" and "protect their habitat". Yet, when pressed to validate either premise, they ignore the question or rely on ancillary data that's tangental, at best.

    Just goes to show wrapping such up in a slick website and fanciful "mission statement" doesn't preclude the fact that once you peel a few layers back, it's still just a simple turd.

    ReplyDelete

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