When Roger Met Patty

Editor's Note: Book Review of When Roger Met Patty, by Daniel Perez of the Bigfoot Times.

I was somewhat baffled by this 492 page book by William "Bill" Howard Munns, a makeup artist, wildlife artist, CGI artist and museum exhibit model designer -- that it was self published on the eve of the 47th anniversary of the historic Patterson-Gimlin film from October 1967. In my mind the better choice for a release date would have been on the 50th anniversary. I hear of wedded people celebrating their 50th anniversary but seldom hear of any mention of someone celebrating their 47th anniversary. No matter, for those who know and have followed my work via my newsletter, the Bigfoot Times, and more specifically, my on going work on the P-G film, that is just me being me.

My purchased review copy of When Roger Met Patty, dated August 4, 2014, is scribbled with a bunch of circled words, numerous questions marks and comments, and my thoughts about this work are many. As other reviewers have already noted, in this tome there is too much Munns and not enough intelligent discussion about the subject in the movie film. In the introduction in the first paragraph Bill Munns makes his first error. "...walking hastily away from the men at one point looking back at the camera..." According to Bob Gimlin, the only living witness to the event, when the frame count for the film is in the 350 range, the subject turns to look at Bob Gimlin, NOT Roger Patterson, who was holding the camera. In several interviews with Bob Gimlin he told me the subject knew where Roger was but was apparently concerned about the whereabouts of Bob Gimlin, who was still moving.

One thing that is clear to me and has been for several years, that no amount of argument for or against this film (I guess you can think "believers" vs. "skeptics") will ever decide the matter. The subject is either a man in a costume or an unknown primate known as Bigfoot, and whether your own arguments are for or against the matter, that doesn't change the outcome one bit. You may believe that 2+3=4 because your math professor said it was so...but that doesn't make it so. The other thing that continues to fascinate me is why spill so much digital ink on the P-G film? Why don't the doubters and skeptics invest their time on "Bigfoot" films made by Ivan Marx, Paul Freeman, or a great many more posted to YouTube? If it is a fake, why invest any amount of time on it? You might ask yourself why is it that the P-G film always bubbles to the top and not, for instance, the Freeman or Marx footage. The P-G film continues to taunt even after all this time. It evokes strong reactions.

What I find elevating in this book is here is someone who has worked in Hollywood as a makeup up artist, etc. and instead of making passing comments or talking points for television or newspaper consumption, Bill Munns single handedly launched a thorough investigation of this historic film and extracted information that no one knew before. So with his decades of make up artistry behind him, Bill concludes on page 476: "On this basis it can be concluded that the PGF Hominid is a biological primate fully organic in its appearance, and is not the result of a fur cloth costume worn by a human mime and attempting to appear as a real biological entity." It would be hard to diminish this statement drawn from years of experience, especially in light of the fact that Bill did many experiments to find answers to questions he posed to himself.

Prior to Bill Munns coming on the scene, no one knew the P-G film had 954 frames in it. The late René Dahinden, part owner of the film, always provided the number 952, and for those of you who have seen my personal e-mail address, you can be certain where that number came from. 952 frames in the entire P-G movie is wrong according to Bill Munns. A 954 frame count was discovered in the inventory process of the copy of the film in possession of Peter Byrne, a well known Bigfoot investigator. But I have heard that Byrne's copy comes from René Dahinden, so that would suggest that Dahinden's copy, obviously, must also have 954 frames. The only true confirmation of that number would come from a physical examination of the 16 millimeter camera original film.

Off topic for a moment, there are still things to be learned, even so many years after the film was shot. It wasn't until July 2012, by way of Bigfooter Steven Streufert from Willow Creek, California, did I learn that the store that Roger and Bob stopped at on the evening of October 20, 1967, to phone Al Hodgson about their film was on the south side of Highway 299 (Al's original store), not the north side, where the new store is located. It isn't a conspiracy of any sort, it is just one of those pesky facts that slipped through the cracks. The entire Bigfoot community just assumed the store that was in question was on the north side of the highway. In fact, in 1967, Al had a much smaller store, on the south side of the street. Often times this information is not widely distributed because people like Al Hodgson may have assumed that everyone already knew the variety store in question was located on the south side of Highway 299.

But getting back to reviewing the book. There are too many photos and illustrations. The author should have scaled down here considerably with only images that would illustrate his key points. Many of the images are of no value, like page 389. The images are far too small to have any visual effect on a reader. And the photo captions are hard to find, often blending in with the main text. Also, it doesn't seem like there are any photo credits to any of the images. For instance, on page 262 the image of the male bodybuilders is from The New Encyclopedia Of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998, by Arnold Schwarzenegger and published by Simon and Schuster. One gets the impression that many of the images were simply lifted from other sources and used without permission.

Then there is the matter of proof reading. Based on what I see, the book was never proofed. "Phillip Morris" on page 11 should read "Philip." On page 84 we see a "Raquel Welsh's fur bikini." Last I remember it was Raquel Welch and the movie is "One Million Years B.C." not "One Million B.C." On page 113: Roger's home town is noted as Yakima, Washington, which is not true. "proximate" should read "approximate" on page 134. On page 259 we are greeted with "the Oldivi Gorge region of Kenya, Africa." The last I remember that is the Olduvai Gorge and it is in Tanzania. You get the idea. For the super critical reviewer of Bill Munns' body of work, it would strongly suggest the author is careless in thought and writing. As the late René Dahinden used to opine, if you don't have the facts, your opinion is of no value.

On page 3 Bill writes, "the camera original footage was passed from Patterson to a film company, American National Enterprises (ANE)..." Munns should have been more accurate in his writing. The film was LOANED, not "passed," which might imply many things, even ownership. He goes on to write ANE went bankrupt and the "new owner had rightful physical possession." The camera original was a LOANED film, not something ANE ever purchased.

Bill Munns discusses the importance of the "film image data evidence, which is truly empirical and fine..." which proves to be a very salient point raised by the author. What is important is what is on that strip of film, the subject depicted in it, not the "backstory," which he likens to "...recollections of people are crappy evidence, and proves nothing because it's junk more so that [sic: than] fact." (Page 23.) So even if Roger Patterson spelled his name as "Rodger" instead of Roger or whether he didn't pay his camera rental bill or spend time with his kids, WHAT does that have to do with what is depicted on his film?

But getting back to truly empirical evidence, what proof do we have the P-G footage was shot on October 20, 1967 and not earlier? That date would have to be considered the "backstory," therefore, as per Munns' thinking, it belongs in the pile of junk recollections. But hold your horses! The backstory is very important in my view and can't be diminished the least bit. It was on that day in October that Roger and Bob came out of the woods and talked with Al Hodgson and told him this film was shot earlier in the day. That was the same day Roger spoke to the late reporter Al Tostado from the Eureka (California), Times-Standard, and news of the event was published one day later, on October 21st. Prior to this, on the old Bluff Creek Road next to the P-G film site, Lyle Laverty and his timber management crew were there just days earlier and did not see any trackway on the P-G film site. When Laverty returned to the P-G film site on Monday, October 23rd, he took slide pictures of freshly deposited human-like tracks. So the useless backstory, when looked at objectively, does have value and in some cases locks things in for times and dates. I could go on with backstory information, but why bother if Bill Munns states it is of little value.

The back story again. On page 310 the author discusses the "second reel," the film of the tracks left by the subject in the P-G film. So, prove to me, in fact, that the trackway footage is directly associated with the subject in the P-G film? In the 954 frames of the P-G film, we don't actually see the subject making tracks, we just assume the subject left them. Yet there is a detailed discussion about the second reel of the tracks left at the scene with pictures included. At one time René Dahinden stated we have no evidence those tracks are associated with the subject in the film. The author also raises his own concern: "...we cannot conclusively connect anything in the trackway footage to any landscape element of Bluff Creek in the PGF." Therefore, it follows you can't connect the dots of the filmed subject with the filmed trackway.

But hold your horses once more! On page 5 the author writes about Marlon Keith (MK) Davis, who "began to study the film and strongly advocated the film's authenticity and the reality of the filmed subject...he then went down a path of tabloid sensationalism." It was M.K. Davis, when he was more studious and serious about the P-G film, who showed, as about as empirical as one can get, that there are depressions in the sand bar, seemingly footprints, in the wake of the P-G subject as it moves forward. So I wouldn't dismiss M.K. Davis so quickly, as that discovery, and his stabilization of the P-G film (taking the jiggle out of the film) have been great advancements in the serious discussion of the film.

What is absolutely brilliant in this work by the author is his map making of where Roger is in association with the subject, showing the lay of the land. No one has dialed it in as precisely as Bill Munns. During his study and inventory of several copies of the film, the author again noticed something no one had before, the number of times the cameraman's finger came off (presumably slipped) the camera trigger. In his study and the empirical evidence of the film itself, there appears to be six segments to the film. To think that extraction from the film was still possible so late in the game is just amazing, and Bill has a very convincing discussion about the starts/stops of the film footage. Prior to Bill's study, a researcher from Vancouver, Washington, Larry Lund, in the late 1990s, had noticed this as well, but was not able to summarize his thought process into writing.

On page 76 the author writes: "In the year 2000, I was interviewed in a newspaper, and offered my opinion that I felt the PGF hominid was not a hoax." The author does no favor for the reader as you are not told what newspaper, and the exact quotation as well is not offered. As well, on page 89 and 90 he talks about the late Janos Prohaska, who wore gorilla suits for various television shows. He was also interviewed for a Bigfoot television documentary, talking about the P-G film, yet the author fails to quote what was stated. Prohaska was of the opinion if the P-G film was fabricated, it was one of the best he had ever seen. I think the author should have dabbled a bit about the IM Index as seen in the subject in the P-G film, yet there is no discussion on the matter. He should have focused, too, more on the subject's height, and what percentage of the human population grow to that height. And he should have invested more time in the nature of the subject's gait (walk).

The author writes at length at how harsh his critics have been on his work. See page 349, "...those who criticize me..." yet I have yet to find an example in this book as to who these critics might be, even by their screen names they might use in various Internet discussion groups, such as the Bigfoot Forums. His two page index for the entire book (which is just short of 500 pages) is absolutely appalling. For those who have purchased or plan on purchasing this book, When Roger Met Patty, I would have to say you are buying an unfinished draft. Perhaps the author should shorten and tidy up the sum of his work and consolidate his thinking into something like 200 pages. The photos and image credits need improvement.

However, in the end I find myself at the scientific crossroads. Science (real science) is about or partly about the process of replication. When something is demonstrated to the scientific community, other scientists want to know how it is done. The recipe, if I may. And then they try to duplicate the results, like, for instance, super tough screen glass for a smart phone that will not scratch or break.

So I would say the same for this enigmatic footage from Bluff Creek, California. Yet the fact remains, after nearly 47 years and many attempts (several seen on television) no one has been able to replicate the subject seen in Roger Patterson's home movie. If he faked the P-G film, after all these years no one, not even Hollywood, has cooked up a better recipe.

Think about that for a moment.

By itself, that should speak volumes to both armchair buffs and those who have researched the film extensively.


  1. "The photos and image credits need improvement."

    Umm,I imagine this is directed at bigfoot researchers with cameras I take it ?

    No ? .........hmm,how odd !

  2. There`s a famous play goes by the name of "Much ado about nothing "

    Shaky would be turning in his grave reading this tripe.

  3. Ahahaha oops sorry joe

    thought it said when Roger met Fatty

  4. ^ so much for all the hoohah visible on this site from the morons recently

  5. So much for the "thinker thunker" "anal"-ysis

    take a peek at the page and see the picture with visible excess SUIT fur.

    This whole scene is riddled with fools,morons,incompetents and outright liars and scammers and you suck every drop of juice from the sac you mugs

    Notice the excess fur/fabric in the neck area of image 1. This is what I'm seeing in the video.


  6. The last ditch effort of tazerites to stay relevant in the winds of change world of bigfooting

  7. His videos are just him walking in the forest without much if any bigfoot activity. You butthurt footards are just jealous that you didn't get the real deal caught on tape like Timbergiant did.

  8. Then obviously Antoinio does not know much.

  9. anybody that claims 6-20 sightings/encounters of a Big foot over a short period of time, say 3 years is a FRAUD, pure and simple!

  10. 1 minute of film
    a dearth of evidence since
    it's underwhelming

  11. Who wears Flip-Flops, when going Bigfooting?

  12. Hey Daniel, we don't need a 800 page review of Bill's 500 page book. take your own advise and keep your review to two lines... Thanks.... Jackass....

    1. Agreed! Daniel is just mad because his own books suck and he is no different from Loren Coleman in that matter!

  13. i'll trade a signed copy for a confirmed Unicorn.

  14. I havent seen but a few of TGBF's videos, but I dont get the feeling he has contact that much. I have seen and heard of only two videos out of his 6-8 years of research where anything IS in the video. The hair behind the bush video, where he got slammed for not filming it come out the other side, and the Big Red Video. Nor have I heard of anyone mentioning the "Other NUMEROUS Contact Videos"
    Unless you count broken branches or stuff left at his bike.

  15. Ahhh more of Billy's sciencey malarkey to be lapped up by his cult of Patty followers.

  16. Bill Munn spent years working on the PG film. No one has come close to analyzing the film the way he did. I think he did an excellent job of proving that Patty was not some joker in a suit.


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