We Highly Suggest This Book About the Patterson Gimlin Film by a Special Effects Expert
Bill Munns is a veteran in the field of special effects and creature makeup. His resume even includes the world famous Swampthing! Munns also has an interest in bigfoot, and made his personal task to dissect the Patterson Gimlin film to figure out the truth. Every bigfoot enthusiast should grab a copy of this book!
The Patterson-Gimlin Film, the Hominid seen in it, the remarkably intense debate it has provoked, and the solution to the mystery. This book offers a truly unique analysis of the famous Patterson-Gimlin Film (the “Bigfoot” film, as it is also known), addressing the question of hoax or fraud from the perspective of a professional makeup and creature effects designer, as well as the perspective of a vintage filmmaker. The film itself is truly the best evidence, far superior to any testimony, recollections and similar descriptive accounts, and this analysis relies upon that best evidence only, for the definitive analysis in the 47 year history of this mysterious piece of film footage. This book is primarily written for the people who have not made up their minds, people who are simply curious about this mysterious film and have not yet formed an opinion as to its authenticity. Hopefully as well, this book will be of value to scholarly people who are willing to evaluate this film with an academic and factual approach. The film is a remarkable mystery, and the controversy surrounding it is a fascinating commentary on human nature. The truth of the Patterson-Gimlin Film is quite an extraordinary story.
To get your copy, click here.
Yawner
ReplyDeleteyou are correct sir
DeleteIn before Mexican Bigfoot.
DeleteIn before Joe fills his mouth full of caulk.
DeleteMatt and BOBO say bigfoots are real, they been tracking bigfoots for years
Deletetham jewsquatchs in tham thar woods
DeleteISIS take care of them jewsquatches
DeleteCurses.
ReplyDeleteans tham melonheads keps atakin me hawgs
DeleteFirst
ReplyDeleteif i may it seems the fascist tyrant who fancies himself as big jon has made a list for the occupation of this blog aka the superphags. allow me to introduce you to thier superphag id"s e.g spiderman etc. 1. joe = iamtheman 2. big jon = iwantaman 3. eva = iusedtobeaman 4. chick = ilooklikeaman 5. ernie = muppetman 6. mmc = notaman 7. uno = tagalongman. the rest all be the yes man....sorry but mike b has been left off this list pending his impeachment hearing...........nsa
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnd of course yourself
Deleteanonyneverbeaman
Naw, it was too mean. Not my style. : )
Delete^ Is good!
2:41 is super jealous because he's not any kind of a man. He tried but couldn't cut the mustard ;-) He's also super jealous he wasn't included in the list. Your name = I wanna be a man. Specialist in being a whipping boy!
Delete^ Iwannabeaman is also basement boy
Delete2:41... Just needs a friend.
DeleteWe could use a PSA about this right about now. Where is DSM when you need him?
Deletethar mexicuns keps border jumpin heers dang it
Delete2:41 needs some beef stew
DeletePay no attention to Joe, he is a friend of the blog and paid troll who is here to influence blog traffic. Dont feed the troll
Delete^ mental scars run deep... So sad... So sad...
DeleteFaster than a speeding frisbie, more powerful that a dogcatcher truck ..look up in the sky!! It's a fly dog!! Ruff!!
DeletePay no attention to the poster known as Joe. He is a friend of the blog and a paid troll, who is here to influence blog traffic. He has many accounts. Dont respond to anything he types. Dont feed the paid troll.
DeleteBill Munns was a lousy SFX artist who was totally inept at costume effects, true story.
ReplyDeleteThis was so good it's worth a copy and paste:
Delete"I see that psychopath who pretended to find the P/G suit is over on the BFF lying to the footers again although he said this before he left the last time : " I have endeavoured to enter into the foreign service of my country as a diplomat using my language skills and knowledge of foreign affairs and history."
LOL..Is this asshole for real ? That's only a lie the JREF footers would believe."
Bill Munns created the Boogens. It's my favorite movie.
DeleteYes, the JREF footers try to pretend to be sharp but they're pretty much intellectually dishonest imbeciles.
Delete2:51... Munns makes people like you shiver in their boots.
Deletemelonheads ares gits U fer shure
DeleteOne of my favourite movies is Return of the Living Dead which is why I say Bill Munns is a hack! No one's scared Joe just sick of the proclamations about the guy's skill just because he agrees with you footers. Quick Joe post that cv
DeleteTrapper needs to add melonheads, thunder birds, Beast of Bray Road, Fouke Monster to his trappin list
DeleteWho's Mill Bunns ?
Delete3:36... Nearly all of the most successful people you can think of in show business have been sacked once in their careers. The guy has a 30 year career covering every element of special effects. Focussing on an instance in that time where a very conflicting and opinionated field manifested itself at his expense means you're looking for an angle to wangle, nothing more.
DeleteAnd yes, you're scared.
He wrote the For Funns Report.
DeleteNope not scarred New Age Joe I don't know why you think I would be and once again you're expressing an opinion on an industry you know nothing about. When was the last time he made creature suit for a movie? That's right Return of the Living Dead, what was he fired for? That's right making a terrible creature suit. SFX work is for on camera media not failed foreign museums and if his own YouTube videos are any indication his digital effects suck too.
DeleteGranted Munns is not a good FX artist but are you the lying POS who pretended to find the P/G suit and have you ever been on meds for mental illness ?
DeletePay no attention to Joe, he is a friend of the blog and paid troll who is here to influence blog traffic. Dont feed the troll
DeleteSorry science boy... I think you'll find yourself out of your depth yet again. Excluding his career leading up to that point;
Delete"1985 - Alchemy 2, working with Ken Forsee, inventor of the Teddy Ruxpin doll, for the ABC TV special on Teddy that Ken’s company produced. I was a foam latex suit specialist among the costume fabrication crew.
1987 - The Munsters Today - prosthetic designer and key makeup/wig designer on the pilot episode and first show of the series.
AST Computers - parody of 2001 Dawn of man sequence, with me designing five ape suits and servo motor animation of heads for facial expressions.
Kraft Macaroni & Cheese “Alice in Wonderland” parody (I did the prosthetics for the Mad Hatter character, faithful to the Tenniel illustrations).
Goolab Toys aliens
Gold Elephant
What Waits Below
Hugga Bunch
Three Breasted Chicken
Quest for Burger
Chevy Metamorphous
Foam Latex Puppet Fabricator - working for puppeteer Tony Urbano, molding and casting foam latex puppet heads for numerous jobs for him over 15 years.
I resumed teaching makeup part time at a vocational school called "Learning Tree", where I started courses on makeup and prosthetics from 1987 to 1994
Transition to Other Media - Having grown weary of doing zombies and swamp monsters, desiring to prove my skills were up to the challenge of excellence and realism, I started creating superbly realistic wildlife sculptures of full scale animal figures and museum quality prehistoric human ancestor models. In 1988, I took the “Best in World Recreation” award at the world taxidermy championships (and won again in 1992).
1998 Started working at Creative Presentations, Inc, Valencia CA, hired to help them develop a capability to enter the museum market and compete with Dinamation and Kokoro. While there, I designed, sculpted and figure finished a Gigantopithecus figure as a museum showcase figure, was project manager on the LA County Natural History Museum Bird exhibit, was designing sculptor and project manager on the T Rex for Knotts Kingdom of the Dinosaurs upgrade. I was designer of a realistic bald eagle figure for an Indian Heritage Visitor Center in Vancouver, worked on an ET stroller costume for Universal Studios (that later got replaced with an animatronic figure), and oversaw the refitting of the Gigantopithecus figure into a “Bigfoot” figure for the IAAPA trade show in 1989.
I was promoted to VP (one of four) in 1989, when John March moved up to President and Gene Bullard moved up to Chairman. I left CPI in August 1990 to resume my career as independent artist.
Delete1991 Commissioned by the French National Museum of Natural History to create two animatronic models of Archaeopteryx, for their renovation of the Grand Gallerie of Zoology.
1992 - returned to CPI as freelance artist for the Fuji/San Rio dinosaur show, sculpting the 23’ Tarchia dinosaur.
1992 - returned to World Taxidermy Competitions to take home my second “Best In World Recreation” award.
During this year I also teamed up with the San Diego Museum of Man to create a joint venture exhibit “Faces on Fossils” , that showed both the evolution of humans and how the appearance of these ancestral forms is created. It debuted in San Diego successfully, and then went on a five year exhibit rental tour across America. The figures I created are now part of a permanent installation at that museum.
1993 - Started working at AVG as contract sculptor and figure finisher, doing numerous tigers for a theme park job of theirs, and then helping them get the bid for the 1993 Fuji/San Rio dinosaur show. I was AVG project manager as well as figure designer, lead sculptor and figure finishing lead.
While there, I also helped sculpt and design the 65’ dragon for the Excallibur Hotel in Las Vegas.
While working at AVG, one of my innovations in molding technology so impressed Alvaro Villa that he applied for a patent for the technology, with me principle inventor. As I understand, a sudden lack of business and revenues about that time caused him to “tighten the belt” and cut non-essential costs, and the patent attorney fees were non essential, so the application was suspended.
AVG hired me as animatronic skin technician and sent me to Taiwan (with two mechanical technicians) to help open a dinosaur exhibit based on both the 1992 Fuji/San Rio dinosaur exhibit (that CPI did) and the 1993 exhibit AVG did. I was the only person who had worked on both parts, and was invaluable in all the visual repairs (the exhibits had been in storage containers for several years) as well as the general assembly of the larger elements and creatures (including a 45’ sauropod).
In 1993 and 1994, I received a contract to outfit a new Archaeological Theme Park in Holland (Archeon, in the town of Alphen Rhine) with a full set of prehistoric wildlife figures showing the evolution of life first in the sea, then on land, and finally human evolution. Sadly, this enterprise never reached profitability, and closed a few years later.
Other museum projects included;
Chimps for Educational exhibit, Japan
A commission for a Natural History Museum in Kyoto, Japan was for creating three prehistoric cats, the small Dinictus, the classic Saber-Toothed Cat, and the giant Cave Lion.
Potomac Museum Group Mammoths
A commission for the Tokyo Broadcasting Commission and the World T Rex Expo was for showing the evolution of flight with three figures, the small dinosaur Compsognathus, the proto bird Archaeopteryx, and finally a modern Peregrine Falcon.
A commission for the Ashland Oregon Museum of Natural History was for two bald eagles.
Gorilla Rentals - Buddy, Disney animation, San Bernardino Museum, Maryland Museum
Film industry work in the mid 90’s included an animatronic bear for a Hostess Twinkie commercial,
Extensive makeup, wigs and prosthetics for the TBS TV series “The Chimp Channel”.
Working with Animal Makers in 1996 and 1997, I created chimpanzee figures for the HBO Jane Goodall promo spot that won a Cleo, green wing macaws for a Texaco commercial, a bald eagle for a Anhiser Busch commercial, and some dog prosthetics for a Pepsi commercial.
1997 I went digital, beginning my work in computer graphics.
DeleteMy work with Bryce was so unique that MetaCreations (Bryce’s developer) hired me to create graphics for a product promotional campaign, “Bryce, the Eighth Wonder of the World (Because with it, you can create the other Seven)!” With that commission, I created all seven ancient wonders of the world using only the Bryce software, nothing else. 1998-1999
2000 Computer Graphics World magazine ran a four page portfolio of my Seven Wonders artwork. Then in 2002, in their 25 year retrospective of milestones in computer graphics, my portfolio of work was recognized as one such milestone.
2000-2001 - Hired by Jester.com to create VRML scenes of the Great Pyramids, the Lighthouse of Alexandria, an NFL stadium, and the Great Wall of China where website visitors could move through the scene while chatting with others online. I used 3D Studio Max, exporting my files to VRML 1 formats for Jester to use. Like many internet ventures, this one folded a while back."
So you see... Like all experts they develop to which Munns has done so covering every area of the field. Also... Is like to add, even if 1985 was the last time he'd worked on costume for film, that's nearly 20 years of constume advances from the late 60's in which he'd have a vast knowledge of in contrast to the constume methods of that time... And therefore qualified. So shut up and sit down science boy... You have no idea what I'm qualified in, and you just listen to what psuedoskeptics feed your perverse thumb sucking requiring for reassurance.
; )
So New Age Joe where's the suit work. I see facial prosthetics and Giganto figure work but no suits? You know why? Not got the skills needed and after Living Dead doubt anyone wanted him to try again. The very fact that after being fired the artistic director (with no prior SFX work) stepped in and did a hell of a lot better than Munns says a lot. Oh, of course everyone tells the truth on their cvs lol. Any more cut and pastes? Oh, not even mentioned the fact that before even starting this PGF study he already believed in the footage or the fact that many better SFX artists have dismissed it as a 'cra**y suit' over the years. If Munns is such a great SFX artist where are the Oscars, Emmys, Baftas.... He does have that taxidermy award I guess.
DeleteEasily death with... Not the first time you've been mislead by limited info, I'll take the blame for this one this time;
Delete"Beginning with a few basics, I was born in Los Angeles, in 1948 and grew up in the San Fernando Valley. I attended Hollywood High, and got my first taste of filmmaking in my senior year, when I made a Super 8 film satire of the Teen Dance Shows popular on TV at the time. I then went on to Los Angeles Valley College, taking courses in theater arts and filmmaking.
I learned the basics of theater makeup there, as well as all general film skills (camera, lighting, editing, etc), and then I took an Advanced Stage Makeup course offered by Mike Westmore. The instruction included making prosthetics. During that class, Mike announced that there was an opening at Universal Studios, for a makeup artist for the Studio Tour, and I applied and was accepted.Thus began my career as makeup artist at Universal Studios, 1969, doing the Makeup Show.
I continued experimenting with prosthetic makeups, and did Freelance Prosthetic Makeup work creating prosthetics for the Blackenstein monster in the movie “Blackenstein” 1970
I worked on the ABC TV "Lil Abner" special, doing appliance makeups. Also did "Dating Game", "Newlywed Game", "Lawrence Welk Show" and 11O'Clock newscasters makeups.
Some independent features I worked on included:Timber Tramp, Snatch, Richard Petty Story, and a Purina Catfood Commercial.
I started teaching makeup in 1971 and promoted to director and supervising instructor of Elegance International, the first professional makeup artist school. I was the director from 1973 to 1979. I taught salon, theater, film makeup, prosthetics, and high fashion.
1980 returned to private practice as makeup/prosthetics artist.
My film credits in the 80’s include:
Doc R&D
Savage Harvest
The Boogins (a minor horror cult classic)
Dead and Buried
Swamp Thing (first one)
Brainstorm
Witch
Beastmaster (first one)
New Kids
Quest for Fire
Better Off Dead
No Man's Land
Return of the Living Dead
Where the Boys are 1984 (custom “love doll” called inflatable Dave)
Baby
Blind Date (Mechanically animated erotic sculptures for art gallery scene)
Micki & Maude (custom props)
The Man who Loved Women (dog stunt double)
Heaven and Earth (Dian Fossey Bio) prototype work only, on making real chimpanzees look like gorillas. My work isn’t in the actual film, but it’s impressive experience none the less.
ABC TV show Orang Suit."
Also... There's a a source that I'm looking for now that states that Munns was given a very limited budget to work with on RLD, to which was increased after he was sacked, professional biases are always rife in the film business and people get legs up and favoured all the time, not to mention conflict of creative opinion is very common, as I stated earlier.
Also... It would have to take someone to have some level of interest in the PGF to start with to invest the level of study Munns has; a very natural process of investigating the source to which someone who has a history in creating ape SFX would be excused for doing so. There are no acclaimed SFX experts to have commented on the PGF after it has been stabelized and digitalized and none have passed more than a lazy two second opinion on it. Also... If we lived in a world where the only experts were that due to oscars, then we'd have but a handful working on everything ever.
*dealt
DeleteIs that a good enough cut and paste for you, science boy?
DeleteNow, i honestly see why you are the most hated guy on this blog!!!!
DeleteQuite pathetic you are!
As long as I'm hated by people who spend their quality time trying to belittle honest people and research, then that's totally fine with me.
DeleteI have no reason to hate anyone... Telling I think.
Anyway! Off to bed... I'll return any comments left in the morning.
DeletePeace.
Pay no attention to the poster known as Joe. He is a friend of the blog and a paid troll, who is here to influence blog traffic. He has many accounts. Dont respond to anything he types. Dont feed the paid troll.
DeleteOh dear me New Age Joe (or Psuedo Joe?) is now a movie industry expert too how surprising! So it's normal procedure for a cash strapped horror production to fire their SFX artist two weeks into a production (when every single day is costing thousands of dollars out of that budget) just because they want to give some one else a 'leg up' in the business! You sure you're not a Troll Joe? I know you're not because every time I 'be commented on Munns you've spat out the same uninformed argument refusing to change your stance despite making it clear that you know jack about movies or SFX!
DeleteMunns was fired by O Bannon because he was cr@p and yes the director was an @ss to work for but Munns had worked with him (on Dead and Buried, excellent movie btw) before so not like he didn't know what he was in for. It was the 'yellow man' costume that cost him his job, a simple headless man gaff that Munns made look like it was done by the most incompetent amateur haunted house maker. To say it wasn't camera ready is a politeness, to say it was testament to some one lacking in talent and not particularly trying hard to do their job would be spot on. Any director worth a toss would have fired him for that turd of epic cr@pitude even with a financial gun to the head that could have shut down production permanently.
Munns can try his hardest to play it down but one of the things the movie is well known for is his firing and lousy work. In his defence the work he did on Tarman zombie was good everything else, big thumbs down.
"Munns was originally hired to transform Stout’s impressive images into working, practical effects, but due to budgetary constraints, along with dissatisfaction from director Dan O’Bannon, Munns was fired halfway through the shoot and replaced by Myers, who was able to pull off minor miracles on a shoestring budget. Stout dismisses the efforts of Munns, saying that he put in “the minimum amount of effort” and Mumms defends his work on the film by saying that O’Bannon wanted the impossible on no money and that the director was so single-minded in his work that he wasn’t good at working (or relating properly to) others around him. Some of the ghastly publicity stills that adorn the UK soundtrack album sleeve show some of the original zombie make-up work that O’Bannon signed-off on and subsequently changed his mind on the day of the shoot and if these were typical of how things went under Munns’ time on the film, then his dismissal might not have been that rash. Munns was also responsible for the iconic skeleton that rises from the grave, which doesn’t look TOO bad, but when you compare it to what Stout had envisioned, it comes across as distinctly lacklustre - Munns was also working on the headless “Yellow Man” zombie and even shows you a picture of a work-in-progress version which looked pretty laughable. In his defence, Munns was doing what was asked of him and his version of the Tar-Man zombie was pretty much what ended up on -screen, with only a few minor modifications." From a review of Return of the Living Dead DVD on DVDactive.com
DeleteThree Breasted Chicken. The Schindler's List of the avian world... Got robbed at the Oscars IMO. It's all politics you know..
DeleteJust kidding. There wasn't a damn thing on Joes latest cut and paste that even suggests this clown is on any serious film makers radar. Might be why he's bigfooting for a living. Ole' Squatch better have a lotta tits, cause there's a lotta folks wanting one.
DeleteOh dear science boy... I really hope you didn't paste that comment and tuck yourself up again, you really do have a knack for this, don't you? If it was down to someone else, thank you;
Delete"Munns was originally hired to transform Stout’s impressive images into working, practical effects, but due to budgetary constraints, along with dissatisfaction from director Dan O’Bannon, Munns was fired halfway through the shoot and replaced by Myers, who was able to pull off minor miracles on a shoestring budget."
"Munns defends his work on the film by saying that O’Bannon wanted the impossible on no money and that the director was so single-minded in his work that he wasn’t good at working (or relating properly to) others around him."
"Some of the ghastly publicity stills that adorn the UK soundtrack album sleeve show some of the original zombie make-up work that O’Bannon signed-off on and subsequently changed his mind on the day of the shoot and if these were typical of how things went under Munns’ time on the film, then his dismissal might not have been that rash."
Well we already know that Munns was on a tight budget, and we already know the relationship between Munns and O'Bannon was frosty. I think there's enough credentials in Munns' CV that shows him very accomplished at make up... Considering we're talking about a magic monkey suit here, it's moving the goal posts ever so slightly.
"Munns was also responsible for the iconic skeleton that rises from the grave, which doesn’t look TOO bad, but when you compare it to what Stout had envisioned, it comes across as distinctly lacklustre."
Let's see... "Munns was originally hired to transform Stout’s impressive images into working, practical effects, but due to budgetary constraints... "
"Munns was also working on the headless “Yellow Man” zombie and even shows you a picture of a work-in-progress version which looked pretty laughable..."
... Wait for it... "In his defence, Munns was doing what was asked of him and his version of the Tar-Man zombie was pretty much what ended up on -screen, with only a few minor modifications."
Thank you to whoever posted that. As I said earlier; professional biases are always rife in the film business and people get legs up and favoured all the time, not to mention conflict of creative opinion is very common, as I stated earlier. So hey! Again... You show a trait to avoid key information and paint things in a black and white tone when in fact there's a little more to he picture. Also... When the legacy of a film is someone getting sacked, there's usually not much sympathy and compassion for he who got the hump. I see nothing in that review that doesn't confirm what what I've been saying all along, and we don't hear Munns' side f the story really... Do we? Munns is an expert in constume, his work in comparison to the alleged suit made in 1967 would far exceed any accomplishments and manufacturing skills of a broke cowboy who would have knocked it up in his garage, and you are as daft as ever and agenda driven as ever.
T'is all! Now to the rest of your telling angry comments that show one heck of a toll in recent weeks...
; )
complete and utter b.s.!!
DeleteNope!!
Deletenow that Season 2 of Mountain Monsters is over : (
ReplyDeleteWhen will Mountain Monsters reruns start-
they have 2 seasons they can rerun-
they gots to do reruns RIGHT
season 3 dont start till spring 2015!!!!
wasn't billy munns in lost in space
ReplyDeleteNope but the Patty suit was supposed to be in one episode....
DeleteMy pet peeve of the day. Dr. Smith was allowed a redemption moment to atone for being a weasel near the end of Lost in Spaces's run. The same moment was denied to Major Frank Burns on MASH. Larry Linville, in true life a sweetheart of a guy, towed the company line to his death. In reality, Burns was denied his moment by Linda Bloodworth Thomason, whose politics wouldn't even allow the hint of her opposition to be shown in a good light. On a similar note, Hawkeye Pierce tops my list of fictional people I'd like to slap around. Really Pierce? Surrender an entire camp of highly trained professionals to a "sniper" who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if you locked him in it? Pathetic...
DeleteWith all of their bluster and smart alleck-y bullshite, not one of these trolls have been able to change one person seeking the truth about the existence of bigfoot's mind. Keep wasting your time and energy, keep showing us your not-so-hidden agenda, and your FEAR that there just might BE a creature in the woods-nothing you write changes anything. All it does is continue to prove to us what losers you all are.
ReplyDeleteAgenda? And fear? A little over the top don't you think? There's no organized plot to crush bigfooters. Just a bunch of guy's on the internet who think you're obsessed with something no one else gives a shit about. When you use words like "agenda" and "fear" all it does is prove to us what lunatics you all are. Not for believing in bigfoot but for thinking there's a underground movement out to shut you down. Newsflash. No one gives a crap.
DeleteI've never understood how it'll bring down organised religion, disprove evolution or destroy the logging industry either. If the government wants to chop down trees it'll chop down trees! Religion managed to survive Darwin so it ain't going to be phased by Bigfoot. Bigfoot in no way would disprove evolution either, if it's a relict hominid so what? It's just taken longer than the others to become extinct!
DeleteIf bigfoot is discovered on Tuesday, by Thursday the media will be on to the latest Miley Cyrus tweet.
DeleteCyrus licks Sasquatch!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteRiddle me this Psuedo Joe if Bigfoot will blow organised religion away then why are there so many creationalists involved in cryptozoology? Why are there so many searching for Sasquatch, Nessie and Mokele Mbemble in a misguided effort to disprove evolution. This is why I kept asking you about your religion Psuedo Joe, because these creationalists have a reputation for ferocity in defending their pro-Bigfoot stance. If there's a living dinosaur or this relic human species then Darwinian evolution is some how blown out the water!
DeleteWilliam Gibbons the biggest proponent for the existence of Mokele Mbembe is a creationalist. You might have seen him on the Monster Quest episode plaster casting a hole in a bank as some kind of evidence of a dinosaur in Africa! In fact his only qualifications are in theology! How bout Rev. Jeff? He doesn't seem to have any problems balancing his belief in God and Bigfoot. Leon that used to fill up the comments with his pro-creationalism, racism and pro-bigfoot bs didn't seem to think Sasquatch would wipe out his religion! On this weeks Sasquatch Chronicles they interview Sarah Brown who says she had problems accepting Bigfoot till her Mum said that if God created us then surely he created Bigfoot too!
The comment about a relic human surviving till now that I made was me paraphrasing a biologist who was asserting that only the naive with no real understanding of evolution would think if Bigfoot existed then Darwin was wrong.
Is Bigfoot more dangerous than a grizzly or a mountain lion that people would be adverse to visiting any of the National Parks? Couldn't you argue that more people would visit the redwoods or the forests of the Pacific Northwest in the hope of seeing a Sasquatch if they were proved real? How many more people do you think have visited the National Parks hootin' and tree knocking since Finding Bigfoot started in the hope of seeing something? As for logging like I said if the government wants to carry on logging it'll find a way.
DeletePsuedo Joe you don't half make me chuckle, just because you've attached so much importance to your hobby doesn't mean the rest of the world gives a toss.
Bigfoot is percieved as a monster, the long line of scientists who knock your di*k in the dirt aren't religious.
DeleteKeep deflecting... I'll be back to answer your vomit soon enough.
You really give yourself away bro... So badly, ha ha ha ha!!!
Delete"Riddle me this Psuedo Joe if Bigfoot will blow organised religion away then why are there so many creationalists involved in cryptozoology? Why are there so many searching for Sasquatch, Nessie and Mokele Mbemble in a misguided effort to disprove evolution."
DeleteWhat a pile of laughable crap. How many cryptozoologists are trying to disprove evolution? I'd love to see that list... I think you'll find plenty challenging the log standing educational systems, not evolution. Even though there probably are a handful, American people are religious. Do you read how desperate and topic deflecting you sound? Do you know the amount of scientists that are involved with this subject that are trying their damnedest to ring an authenticity bell in those that are ridiculing on the side lines, why would anyone in their right minds apply hominology to this field (a field that relies highly on evolutionary trees) try and oppose the very educational systems that have given them he basis of their theories?
"This is why I kept asking you about your religion Psuedo Joe, because these creationalists have a reputation for ferocity in defending their pro-Bigfoot stance. If there's a living dinosaur or this relic human species then Darwinian evolution is some how blown out the water!"
Again... It's typical of straw man arguments and an effort at lesserning a field by the derogatising of religious labeling. What it doesn't do, is agknowlege the science that's been put your way that you fail to counter with your own 'version'.
"William Gibbons the biggest proponent for the existence of Mokele Mbembe is a creationalist. You might have seen him on the Monster Quest episode plaster casting a hole in a bank as some kind of evidence of a dinosaur in Africa! In fact his only qualifications are in theology!"
Good for him... Again, you deflect, we're taking about a far greater field of study here, one that has a basis in some of the greatest anthropologists of the last 60 years (Russian), it's another strawman argument. Remember... The mountain gorilla, giant squid and the giant panda were all cryptids at one time. I wonder if those invested in the discovery of them cared what religious perceptions their critics would focus on??
Delete"How bout Rev. Jeff? He doesn't seem to have any problems balancing his belief in God and Bigfoot."
Actually... You won't find a more skeptical thinker about the subject, conspiracies, inter-dimensional attributes, all the things that actually 90% of enthusiasts oppose (something you conscientiently excluded from your versions), The Rev has expressed support for and promoted at length.
"Leon that used to fill up the comments with his pro-creationalism, racism and pro-bigfoot bs didn't seem to think Sasquatch would wipe out his religion! On this weeks Sasquatch Chronicles they interview Sarah Brown who says she had problems accepting Bigfoot till her Mum said that if God created us then surely he created Bigfoot too!"
Americans are some of the most religious/spiritual people on the planet, end of. There's a long line of scientific breakthroughs by people who were religious, I'm not defending the stance, just saying. There's also docmisntation of the rest flood, in religious references, something that scientists find hard to deny.
"The comment about a relic human surviving till now that I made was me paraphrasing a biologist who was asserting that only the naive with no real understanding of evolution would think if Bigfoot existed then Darwin was wrong."
Nope! That's you back tracking and damage control I'm afraid... Pretty sad and I've got you by the curlies there. I think you'll find hominid species living side by side with us, interbreeding with us for tens of thousands of years, what a silly think to say, eh?
"Is Bigfoot more dangerous than a grizzly or a mountain lion that people would be adverse to visiting any of the National Parks? Couldn't you argue that more people would visit the redwoods or the forests of the Pacific Northwest in the hope of seeing a Sasquatch if they were proved real?"
The mainstream perception of Bigfoot is it's a monster. People in the States have bears and mountain lion imbedded in their hunting culture and have an amazing tolerance to them; something I very much respect. Add a ten foot ape with the strength to pull your head off in that, groups of them in fact, not so much of a resistance to that concept.
"How many more people do you think have visited the National Parks hootin' and tree knocking since Finding Bigfoot started in the hope of seeing something? As for logging like I said if the government wants to carry on logging it'll find a way."
And these would be the very few people who would still be out there once the realisation drops that bridges can be built between a subject living so close to us. You have no come back to the facts about logging and you need not look any further to what a particular owl caused the communities of the PNW not long ago.
... Your other dribbles seen to in good time...
You've not 'seen' to anything you idiot you haven't even understood the very simple points I've made! Again this is why you're perceived as a troll whose obnoxiousness and failure to grasp others points and acknowledgement of mistakes or failures in their own logic is purely to get people in long arguments in the comments section that increase blog traffic. Don't get me wrong I don't think Shawn's paying you for this I generally think that you're an idiot Psuedo Joe who believes any unsupported argument in defence of this subject. Oh you're also a arrogant ass too but you know that right ? It's like your 'thing'.
DeleteSo American people are religious, wow didn't know that one Joe! The Republic Party has a religious element? Nope that too was news to me! I was totally oblivious to that too thanks for enlightening me oh supreme intelligence from the valleys!
"Nothing would be more physical in an evidential death nail than the same concept towards religion, even more so than the disputed stance of creationism and accomplish what Darwinism couldn't accomplish to religion."
This is what I was arguing against you dumb prick, a 'death nell' to religion! What a load of steamy poop that is why I brought up Rev. Jeff. Leon and Sarah Brown as they are obviously people of faith who don't see Bigfoot being a religion killer. You call me a deflector?! Psuedo Joe take a look in the mirror boyo.
Not everyone who calls themselves a cryptozoologist is a scientist either I'd struggle to find any scientist that would take that mantel. Go listen to cryptozoologists on some of the blog talk radios talking bout how evolution's just a theory, or how silly it is we came from monkeys! Either that or you get the armchair anthropologists creating their own speculative theories of where Bigfoot fits in our family tree. You ever see the Squatchers Lounge with Scott C Marlowe? What an arrogant arse that guy was it was hilarious to hear him on Bigfoot Tonight last year. This is him talking bout his book the Bigfoot Enigma.
Delete"I wanted to get the book out so I finished it up over August because I knew instinctly what was likely to be in Brian Sykes' DNA study that's about to be published...his report will back up some of the things I've theorised..about the animal, where it comes from it's philogeny and all that good stuff." Oh really Scott, "(Chuck) Do you have any first hand information on that?"
"(Marlowe) Oh, yeah...there's things I know about it (Sykes's study) as a scientist but I'd rather not talk about it and steal Brian's thunder...but I'm am sure they are going to discover that the Yeti hair and the hair they have from Adam Davies' expeditions...I'm sure they're going to come back and find whatever animal it is related to but is not an Orangutan and if you read the book I suspect that Bigfoot and the Swamp Ape are related to the species that gave rise to the Orapithicus, the Gigantopithicus Blacki and yada yada they're from branches of the same family tree so I believe they're all related." Epic fail, epic lie, epic face palm
"
Thanks for informing me of the fact there were different species of human, I didn't know that at all Psuedo Joe! Old silly me heh! Well I'll eagerly wait for Meldrum's special honorary board to ring those authenticity bells loud and clear! Oh, are those Russian anthropologists the ones convinced that Zana wasn't a modern human like Igor Burtsev? Isn't it Burtsev who backed Ketchum all the way and also got Meldrum to go to Russia for an obvious hoax to increase tourism in the region? Is he one of the greatest anthropologists in the world? Awesome I'm sure in no doubt the doubters will be smighted oh great supreme Psuedo Joe! Smithsonian your days of terror and suppression are over!!!!!
DeleteHa ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
DeleteI like making you angry, it makes me feel warm inside. Fact is, if you knew of all these obvious things you draw upon, then you wouldn't have fallen into those patio door fails. That's why it's so funny, you don't have a concept of some of the most very basic things in modern culture, yet you claim to know science so well.
(Pfffffft)
Suddenly these are all my failures? I'm baby sitting you, you, silly boy, you make this easy for me, it's fun... Remember, "who would care about a relict hominid discovery", eh?
(Pffffffffft)
You seem a little butthurt about Meldrum's honorary board? Great stuff, nothing tells me more than three whole comments of name calling, slipping in all the things I've got you on, please keep em coming, I'm getting the ego the size of Aberystwyth here! Ha ha ha ha!!!
Those religious people you referenced in accordance to the discovery of a relict hominids are not a reflectance of the fundamentalists that can be said to be running half of the country. Some of these people have banned Harry Potter for witchcraft and want the same fundamentalist style regimes in place not far off from Islamic extremists, it is these people I was referring to. There are plenty of religious people, especially in the US that find this group just as intolerable... But you have a knack at pigeon holing people and focussing on black and white concepts, redundant of key information, it's what I've made you so mad over, it's fun! Are you a xenophobe by any chance?? I've read some crazy stuff of late, seen some great stuff on the discovery channel too about how astrophysics and quantum physics are starting to open the doors up to all types of crazy concepts, but hey! That's a type of science that requires a little imagination in accordance with Einstein's famous quote, I doubt you would have heard of that with your knack for cherry picking your 'version'. You also have people invested a lot of time in Zecharia Sitchin, there's all sorts of stuff out there that some very clever people are invested into. though I'm the least religious person you'll know (contrary to your accusations) I find it's conducive, unless you're free thinking Nazi that is.
As for those anthropologists and Zana;
DeleteAnthropologist M.A.Kolodieva compared the skull of Khwit with the male skulls from Abkhazia in the collection of the Moscow State University Institute of Anthropology and found that Khwit's skull was significantly different. Indicating it as the Tkhina skull, she writes:
"The Tkhina skull exhibits an original combination of modern and ancient features ... The facial section of the skull is significantly larger in comparison with the mean Abkhaz type ... All the measurements and indices of the superciliary cranial contour are greater not only than those of the mean Abkhaz series, but also than those of maximum size of some fossil skulls studied (or rather were comparable with the latter). The Tkhina skull approaches closest the Neolithic Vovnigi II skulls of the fossil series..."
On her part, anthropologist M.M.Gerasimova came to following conclusions:
"The skull discloses a great deal of peculiarity, a certain disharmony disequilibrium in its features, very large dimensions of the facial skeleton, increased development of the contour of the skull, specificity of the non-metric features (the two foramina mentale in the lower jaw, the intrusive bones in the sagittal suture, and the Inca bone). The skull merits further extended study."
So the bottom line of the Zana case today is this: we have nothing but the words of witnesses to describe Zana's peculiar nature, but the hard and specific evidence of her son's skull goes a long way in making the testimony of witnesses more solid and trustworthy."
I seem to remember Dr Sykes very intrigued with such features also, and when dipping into theories of Cro-Magnon specimens we find, we have a very interesting door opened with regards to how close we are to what is largely perceived as Sasquatch as a relict hominid. Remember the skull adheres to modern morphology as well as ancient, this opens all sorts of theories up with regards to the impact of agriculture on early modern homo sapiens, something I could go on for hours about. Remember;
"Control tests were run that were deliberately contaminated with dog and cat DNA despite which still the Fox hair turned out to be human."
- Ray Crowe
All your other nonsense is name calling, hoax alleging, all the things I've come to expect from such a sceptic example of heuristical idealism.
You make baby sitting so much fun, science boy.
; )
*allegations
DeleteFor all your gabble and unfounded claims Joe you have nothing! I've no idea why you seem to think that anything in the realm of quantum physics is even relevant to the discussion on Bigfoot plus if you think that watching anything on the Discovery Channel is educational you're treading in dangerous waters lol You think that any of their fake monster documentaries, Amish Mafia, faked reality shows are worth a damn ? They stopped making real documentaries long ago to focus on the tripe they make now to increase viewers and ad revenue and profits. It's a joke and nearly all their output is heavily edited by the producers to get the money in! They don't care about educating or reflecting reality just money.
DeleteI keep telling you Meldrum doesn't have an honorary board you just read it wrong it's just an editorial board. I'm the dummy Psuedo Joe? As for religion Joe I have no idea why you seem intent on babbling on about it. You said that Bigfoot would be some death nell for organised religion, I said I didn't think so as many people seem to balance the two beliefs already and that there's a belief amoung creationalists that cryptids would disprove Darwin. Now you seem intent on going off about the state of religion in the US and it's place in the Republican Party which I fail to see as an argument there. You just keep talking bout religion and it's importance in American society something I'm already aware of but there's no argument Psuedo, why would Bigfoot shut these people up or destroy their religion? It wouldn't at all! Darwin didn't and dinosaurs didn't and Bigfoot won't either. So essentially what's your point? How would Sasquatch discovery shake these people's beliefs to the core that their faith would dissapear? Extremists of all faiths will still be there no matter what as unfortunately as long as people exist so will the need for organised religion. It sucks but it's true.
You can call it hoax alleging or name calling I'd call it evaluating the data and the people who present it. Even Meldrum said the trip he made to see Burtsev in Russia was that the Russian wanted him to validate a hoax to increase tourism. Meldrum's said that many times already so don't think I'm hoax aledging there Psuedo.
At the end of the day Psuedo Kwit's skull morphology may be interesting but his DNA was nothing special. Game, set, match.
DeleteOh Psuedo for all your world salad rants and ego you've still got no irrefutable evidence for Bigfoot.
"For all your gabble and unfounded claims Joe you have nothing! I've no idea why you seem to think that anything in the realm of quantum physics is even relevant to the discussion on Bigfoot..."
DeleteUuuuuuum, you see, I pretty much remember, not more than a few comments up... You suggesting a Puritan type anti-science/evolutionary agenda by the people you listed to which I brought up alternative evolution theories, to whom a lot of people who are invested in this subject are interested in. Concepts such as quantum physics and astrophysics are coming up with FAR crazier scenarios than some of the typical creationist claims (bare in mind there are alien creationists too), to which said fields of science exceed intelligently the most average 'science' you can handle, and this was my point.
"... plus if you think that watching anything on the Discovery Channel is educational you're treading in dangerous waters lol You think that any of their fake monster documentaries, Amish Mafia, faked reality shows are worth a damn ?"
Michio Kaku would probably laugh in your face if you were so quick to bait him with the sensationalist programmes you listed, to which brings me nicely full circle to the science you would no doubt be unable to handle such as string theory and holographic universe to which are some subjects featured in the programmes I've seen him involved in on Discovery Science, etc.
"They don't care about educating or reflecting reality just money."
... Hang on, you're not getting all conspiracy on me now are you? Plotting Discovery Channel Tycoons manaiacally laughing in a smoky room saying "MYESSSS, MYEEEEEEEEESSSS!!!" Sounds pretty deep & dark there bro, fair play.
"I keep telling you Meldrum doesn't have an honorary board you just read it wrong it's just an editorial board."
DeleteThey approve it for peer review bro, that's significant, look at aaaaaaaaaaaall those names and professions & credintials, pretty sweaty at this point?
"I'm the dummy Psuedo Joe?"
No, just trying too hard.
"As for religion Joe I have no idea why you seem intent on babbling on about it. You said that Bigfoot would be some death nell for organised religion, I said I didn't think so as many people seem to balance the two beliefs already and that there's a belief amoung creationalists that cryptids would disprove Darwin."
Uuuuuuummmmm, your doing it again. You're forgetting the train of a thread, not to mention your own arguments, relax... There's no need to try so hard;
"AnonymousSaturday, July 26, 2014 at 10:59:00 PM PDT
I've never understood how it'll bring down organised religion, disprove evolution or destroy the logging industry either... Religion managed to survive Darwin so it ain't going to be phased by Bigfoot..."
You see... This is where I then loosely suggested that Religion could arguably be bigger than Darwinism in the US, to which a Bigfoot discovery would bring both concepts into equal question; with the many fundemalist evangelicals in the country taking a far greater challenge than the average church going Catholic even.
"You just keep talking bout religion and it's importance in American society something I'm already aware of but there's no argument Psuedo, why would Bigfoot shut these people up or destroy their religion?"
... Answered above. It would no doubt cause such a stir that it would send this group totally nutty... And they have serious clout in a country where political systes have relied on the religious support. You also seem a little touchy about the US being considered a religious country? Any little search on the good old Internet will tell you it is. It does have the death penalty too, does that put into perspective with the comparison nations offend you also?? Yes, for over three decades, theocrats rode an unholy alliance with the modern Republican Party to unprecedented heights of power. Ronald Reagan, two George Bushes, and hundreds upon hundreds of Republican Senators and Congressmen were their willing enablers.
"Even Meldrum said the trip he made to see Burtsev in Russia was that the Russian wanted him to validate a hoax to increase tourism."
Boris Porshnev, Alexander Mashkovtsev, Pyotr Molin, Dmitri Bayanov, and Marie-Jeanne Koffmann have never been part of any alleged hoax, and though I'm aware of Meldrum's claims, I like Burtsev... He's that wacky embarrassing grandfather you don't want to be seen in front of your freinds with, but then corner him later on when nobody's around. I think he means well and I have seen plenty of evidence of him conducting legitmate, conducive and seemingly honest work in the field.
"At the end of the day Psuedo Kwit's skull morphology may be interesting but his DNA was nothing special. Game, set, match."
Well we come back to the theories on what this subject entails, to which I have theorised loosely on this page. Bigfoot are human, and if they are part of some archaic homo sapien population prior to agriculture, then all sorts of doors open for the Cro-Magnon theory.
"Oh Psuedo for all your world salad rants and ego you've still got no irrefutable evidence for Bigfoot."
In actual fact, I've got tracks, hair, footage, cultural and contemporary references, immunerable anecdotes, recorded language and the attention of some of the world's most excelled professionals. Remember, plenty of Bigfoot found... None caught.
Chi-Ching!!
; )
"... if it's a relict hominid so what? It's just taken longer than the others to become extinct!"
Delete(Pfffffffft)
No one is scared or FEARS Bigfoot's existence and no one is saying don't go out looking for it either. Go out enjoy yourself! Take the kids and have a blast in the great outdoors! Just don't make crazy claims with out any real evidence to back that up. Don't waste your time with plaster casting, posting blobsquatches, stumpsquatches, audio recordings and big fish stories and bad mouthing science for not accepting it as proof. There's nothing to test there !
ReplyDeletePlenty that has been verified with scientific methods in fact. I wouldn't pay too much attention to a sweaty, panickin' Skywalker who can't sustain or back up his own arguments without these being thrown back down your throat win facts.
DeleteThe crazy, dated and misinformed claims are with those making statements to deny what some of the best and relevant scientists in the world say is certain to be there.
Panickin' Skywalkers.
Best and relevant scientists in world? Why? Because they might support your view? Come on Psuedo Joe lets have a bit of perspective. Are all these scientists part of Meldrum's super scientist club you invented the other day? His special honorary board you created when in fact they were merely cited as editors on his Relic Hominin Inquiry publication. Come on if they weren't vocal on Bigfoot then you wouldn't have heard of them! Just because they might add credence to your argument does not suddenly make them some of the greatest scientist in the world! Oh dear Joe no wonder people think you're a paid troll! I think it's probably that most people wouldn't say the dumb cr@p you do unless they were paid too :)
Deletehttp://youtu.be/8m54lrhTEag
DeleteEnjoy.
I'm down be pub, will answer all your deflections at a later date.
; )
Nah Psuedo I'd rather watch this instead http://www.aintitcool.com/node/68186
Delete"... You'll be amazed when I tell you I'm sure they exist."
Delete- Jane Goodall
"Although not firmly announcing the yeti's definite existence, Sir David (Attenborough) stated that as there is no doubt that a giant ape did exist in the area at some point and that it is therefore not impossible that it may have been able to avoid human contact within the vast open space of the Himalayas."
Yeah that's right, stick your fingers in your ears and cry Psuedo-Joe to the rafters... You are as dumb as a bag of rats, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
; )
Oh... and I think you need to check up on the relevance of editorial boards, and for your info, I'd heard of most and the only time you ever hear do scientists is when you do a bit of digging.
Delete"... if it's a relict hominid so what? It's just taken longer than the others to become extinct!"
(Pfffffffft)